Total Closure possible cause\cure

[television]

i will check various others as and when, got a brace of w211 in tomorrow. have an ML too, but these do not have IR at all iirc.

Do bare in mind that most people find that they work a few times and then do not,or maybe just once,,

 

[bigasotonuk]

You say the the 202/210 is fundamentally the same as a 203, yes it has 4 wheels and a steering wheel, and thats where it all ends

The key for a 203 does not send out one locking signal and then a continuous pulse, it sends out one continuous stream non stop, I have repaired many many keys.

The complete working for the 202 of the total closure can be found in WIS, you will find nothing for the later cars, that is new models after 2000, the EIS is far more sophisticated

I said the "system" meaning locking system was fundamentally the same Malcolm my 202 key sends out a "continous" IR pulse if the lock/unlock button is held down, so how does this differ to the 203? As you have said the later cars do this as well.

 

[Alex Crow]

very true malcolm, i have known them need the key to be virtually touching the reciever. will see what other models do when i get chance

 

[Frontstep]

I have to be close to my 210 for it too work which it has always.

Oh shouldn't have said that never work again now !1!

 

[ALFIEBEARD]

One can only look at the IR beam through a receiver, and I will take a TV apart in the week and check the IR beam when the LED goes out

You can actually see infra red beams through your mobile phone camera Malcolm, or any close coupled device CCD camera.

Alfie Beard

 

[Alex Crow]

ok, tried 2x w211 today. one worked consistently at up to approx 28 feet. the other one didn't work at all! might try new batteries in the no-go if i get a minute.

 

[Dec]

Later cars may be more sophisticated but the end result amounts to the same thing, inferred transmitter sends a signal and a receiver acts on that signal, doors are locked, any windows found to be open are closed, alarm /immobiliser are armed, that’s it, it’s the same result whether it’s a 1994 car or a 2004 car, how sophisticated the electronics are is irrelevant.

In my particular case the flip out key fob will operate the central locking but it will not close the windows, the reason it will not close the windows is because when the dealer fitted the Scorpion alarm the modified the wiring so that the Scorpion alarm fob could operate the central locking AND operate the total closure of the windows.
The flip out key fob will still operate the central locking and immobilises the car but it will not work the total closure of the windows/sunroof.

So for me to operate the total closure I must use the Scorpion alarm fob, when I operate the alarm fob (one brief press of the button) the alarm is armed and the vacuum pump runs and locks all doors, halve a second later, any open windows/sunroof will closes, however this usually only works on a very hot day.

What my particular case proves is that total closure is triggered when the vacuum pump is run because locking with the Scorpion fob always runs the vacuum pump, the vacuum pump then “tells” the Convenience Control unit to close any open windows/sunroof.

So as far as I can see, in my particular case, the RF Scorpion alarm fob is not at fault as it never fails to run the vacuum pump so my INTERMITENT total closure fault must be with the vacuum pump OR the Convenience control unit. Either it is a bad connection/dry joint in the vacuum pump or in the Convenience Control unit or a memory issue in that the pump or Control Unit “forgets” to close the windows.

Below is the Convenience control unit for my car, the relays control the windows, to get a motor to run forward and backwards you need 2 relays for each motor, my guess is that 4 relays are to close the windows and the other 4 relays are to open the windows so I’m guessing there must be a relay elsewhere for the sunroof.

I know the OP car is more sophisticated and goes about things in a different way, but the end result is the same…the failure of the total closure.

Dec

 

[television]

You can actually see infra red beams through your mobile phone camera Malcolm, or any close coupled device CCD camera.

Alfie Beard

Yes thanks I do have IR testers, but to see the IR signal one has to view it on an oscilloscope and the most convenient way is to use any TV chassis where the signal can be seen on the scope where it goes into the micro

 

[television]

Later cars may be more sophisticated but the end result amounts to the same thing, inferred transmitter sends a signal and a receiver acts on that signal, doors are locked, any windows found to be open are closed, alarm /immobiliser are armed, that’s it, it’s the same result whether it’s a 1994 car or a 2004 car, how sophisticated the electronics are is irrelevant.

Not really so, there are many ways to skin a cat


I know the OP car is more sophisticated and goes about things in a different way, but the end result is the same…the failure of the total closure.

Dec

Yes the end result is the same, but we have no so called comfort modules any more, its all in the EIS,,there is no information given for the EIS as it is a high security thing.

In the older cars all of the info to check and how it all works is in WIS and all circuits can be tested individually, on the later cars there is no information at all other than an outline

 

[Dec]

That’s my point Malcolm, there are indeed many ways to skin the said cat, that’s the problem, we can’t skin this particular cat.

So in the case of the later cars like the OP the only solution is to go on Star to detect what is at fault?

Dec

 

[television]

That’s my point Malcolm, there are indeed many ways to skin the said cat, that’s the problem, we can’t skin this particular cat.

So in the case of the later cars like the OP the only solution is to go on Star to detect what is at fault?

Dec

Nothing in STAR that I have found as of yet, but I will take another look

 

[television]

OK the requirements for the convenience to work are.

Circuits 15c 15r and 15 off
No over or under voltage
All doors closed and no other module sending opening or closing signal.
Unlock/ lock button pressed more than 1sec
The windows do not have to be normalized

The convenience function is aborted if
An obstruction detected
The request is no longer received via the CAN

The corresponding control modules receive the CAN messages , and actuate the required motors, the motors remain actuated for as long as button on the key is pressed, but not longer than 25 sec

This is all there is

 

[Dec]

The convenience function is aborted if
An obstruction detected

Thanks Malcolm, that’s a good bit of info, more than I’ve seen on this before although some of it is a bit beyond me.

Window motor trouble is common enough, if a motor was a bit sticky or slow of the mark, it might be interpreted as “An obstruction detected” and so the closing operation is aborted.

I was wondering, if Mrs. Doyle was to park the car and leave it unlocked for an hour with the windows open, (she could have a cup of tea while she’s waiting) then try the lock up, maybe something is taking a long time to go to sleep.


Dec

 

[television]

Thanks Malcolm, that’s a good bit of info, more than I’ve seen on this before although some of it is a bit beyond me.

Window motor trouble is common enough, if a motor was a bit sticky or slow of the mark, it might be interpreted as “An obstruction detected” and so the closing operation is aborted.

I was wondering, if Mrs. Doyle was to park the car and leave it unlocked for an hour with the windows open, (she could have a cup of tea while she’s waiting) then try the lock up, maybe something is taking a long time to go to sleep.


Dec

Yes all operated from the CAN direct to each motor controller (ECU) The CAN when you turn off the engine is not active for that long, this is the interior CAN B that controls all of this.

The easiest way to check the CAN B is with a simple voltmeter where the CAN high and CAN low can be measured and seen.
I do know that my own total closure works all of the time, and I also know that my CAN B is only active for seconds after turning on anything like the Comand or moving an electric seat.

The hardest thing is getting access to the CAN B on most cars as the wires run through the sides of the floor on many cars

 

[Dec]

That’s all going to be too complicated for most of us, diagnostics seems to be the only way to get to the bottom of this problem.

We really need more feedback from others…regardless of the age of the car… to ascertain just how common this problem is.

Dec

 

[television]

That’s all going to be too complicated for most of us, diagnostics seems to be the only way to get to the bottom of this problem.

We really need more feedback from others…regardless of the age of the car… to ascertain just how common this problem is.

Dec

We know of at least 12 people where this only works sometimes

 

[television]

Just adding that the CAN bus cannot be checked on STAR to see if it is running or sleeping, one does it with a CAN tester or scope or simple volt meter. STAR can tell you a the high or low is not working, but that is all

 

[CITYBOY]

Can you tell me where the recieving lens on the door handle is I cannot see it,
John

 

[Alex Crow]

note that every time the key fob is pressed in range of the car, its RF signal is recognised. this presumably prompts can B and checking of IR function for comfort closure activation. hence the feature will (should!) work however long the can B has been asleep.

 

[television]

note that every time the key fob is pressed in range of the car, its RF signal is recognised. this presumably prompts can B and checking of IR function for comfort closure activation. hence the feature will (should!) work however long the can B has been asleep.

DAS 3 uses no RF at all for the total closure, it says this in WIS