Urgent Help ...Main Dealer says 3 sensors have gone, and due to a part change all 4 need replacing

[Submariner1]

Course it will cost £862
Can this be true!

Its in conflict with the Mobilo guys report!

And this new manager doesnt seem technical to me

 

[LostKiwi]

Course it will cost £862
Can this be true!

Its in conflict with the Mobilo guys report!

And this new manager doesnt seem technical to me

I would be querying how three parts can all fail at the same time and suggest its clearly a manufacturing issue.
I would also be asking them to clean the earth point BEFORE replacing anything.
I would also be asking for a second opinion from another MB garage (MB Basingstoke have a good rep).

 

[Submariner1]

I would be querying how three parts can all fail at the same time and suggest its clearly a manufacturing issue.
I would also be asking them to clean the earth point BEFORE replacing anything.
I would also be asking for a second opinion from another MB garage (MB Basingstoke have a good rep).

Thanks Alistair
I have checked with another dealers parts dept.
He confirmed the parts have just been superceded.
But he says there is no note saying all the others would have to be changed. In his opinion if they had to be then it would say that!

Re my earlier post of my gut feel this new guy is non technical and very “commercial”!
He is really really pushing me , to order the parts. “So we can proceed”

I also asked him, as The mobilo guy (who was ex MB) specifically said I must point out to the dealer, that on the final star test he could not interogate the ESP controller.
He therefore felt it was this dodgy earth point to the controller, and as it was seized with rust. Thus this was indicative it was a bad earth . Plus the multimeter proved it!
“If you now say its 2 bad sensors, would that prevent STAR from being able to even see or interrogate the EPS controller , (i.e. no mb number, no hw or sw no. ... just blank with an “!”.)?

He just said “well I dont know, but I trust my technician”.

I then said ... “did he undo the nut and test the earth. As I requested verbally and in writing?”
He replied “well he read your notes so I suppose he did”

So I said “well if he did, then ask him can a faulty sensor stop Star from even seeing the EPS controller?”

His reply was “well we really have to order these 4 sensors, so we can continue with the test, we cant proceed further without putting all 4 new sensors on, the 2 front ones are defective and we need to change the 2 back ones!”


He then started to read me the star report..
Implausible sensor reading from front axle
implausible sensor readings from rear axle

I stopped him
Excuse me you said the 2 fronts were the faulty ones ... how then are you getting implausible rear axle sensor readings?

He didnt know how to answer that one!
And **** me he then reverted to “well we need to get in and order these sensors to proceed!”

I said can you please run this highly odd diagnosis through someone technical.

And sort out the bad battery.
Because in my opinion it could be undervoltage issues, or sounds more probable that its the controller earth point.

If you say its the front 2 sensors and then in the next sentence tell me its got implausible readings from the rear axles , then logically actually all 4 are faulty! ... whats the chance all four went at the same time!
Probably more chance of winning the Lotto.

Hes going to check with a guy I know is smart!

So my suspicions are 100% correct ... they have employed a moron!

 

[Submariner1]

The only saving grace is thankfully the old highly technical and very reasonable service manager has been promoted to be his overall boss!
So at worst case I will have somone decent and highly technical person to appeal to.

 

[Uncle Benz]

You could have had a go at that earth point nut. If it had snapped on you at least you could have bolted another cable to the ring tag and extended it out to another earth. I'd be tempted to voice an opinion of no confidence in them and get the car out of there. But then I am biased...

 

[LostKiwi]

I would NOT be buying 4 sensors until the earth was done. If they refuse or come back with "We need these ordered to proceed" get the car out of there. In fact get it out of there anyway.
Simple diagnosis steps are do one thing. Test. If still faulty do next thing. Test. If still faulty do next thing. Test and so on.
They do not need new sensors to fix the earth and test it.
This smacks of the "Throw parts at it and eventually we'll hit it" method of diagnosis coupled with the "The more parts we put on the more profit margin we make so it helps justify our continued existence" mentality that sadly seems to be coming more prevalent.

 

[Submariner1]

The only saving grace is thankfully the old highly technical and very reasonable service manager has been promoted to be his overall boss!
So at worst case I will have somone decent and highly technical person to appeal to.

Spoke to his boss all is good, thankfully they havent changed their philosophy! and he agreed this sounded like a bad way to go about it.

He's set up a call with their top genuius whom I trust.

 

[Submariner1]

I would NOT be buying 4 sensors until the earth was done. If they refuse or come back with "We need these ordered to proceed" get the car out of there. In fact get it out of there anyway.
Simple diagnosis steps are do one thing. Test. If still faulty do next thing. Test. If still faulty do next thing. Test and so on.
They do not need new sensors to fix the earth and test it.
This smacks of the "Throw parts at it and eventually we'll hit it" method of diagnosis coupled with the "The more parts we put on the more profit margin we make so it helps justify our continued existence" mentality that sadly seems to be coming more prevalent.

Totally agree
Fortuneately the old Manager is now seriously powerful, and was in total agreement with me.
Basically said no way are we going to do it this crazy way.
First we will sort the earth, then check the controller, then if not sorted, try sensor by sensor with a know substitute.

He did warn me that once in his career ( must be decades) one controller did blow out all 4 sensors.
But he said relax .. your car drove off the lowloader.
And in that other case the controller was completely fried! And he added, you bet we approached replacing each sensor one by one, because we couldnt beleive it could damage them all. So thats a one in a million chance.

Thank god he was “old school Mercedes”. As he said when a customer of 20 years standing has an issue like this I want to know about it. They a specifically differentiating themselves by doing it properly!

 

[Submariner1]

How can I check if its true, that if you change even ONE Wheel Speed Sensor from 2009 you have to change them all!
The part numbers are :-

Were from 2008 until 2014 : Are now superceded by :
Front: A221 540 03 17. A221 905 71 00
Rear : A221 540 01 17. A221 905 60 00

If its true that changing one means you have to change them all, would that be highlighted in EPC ?
Or is that only shown in WIS?
Reason I ask is another Dealers Parts dept. Say, Yes the parts have been superceded, but there is no mention that you have to change them all! He said in his opinion if you had to change them all it would tell you. He actually said I would not believe them if I were you!

Just seems highly implausible to me.
As they all plug into the same ESP-ABR Controller surely it would expect a similar voltage / resistance.

If say for example, the old sensors were no longer available, and you had to buy new sensors and a new controller then I could sort of understand that.
But as they all plug into the same old controller surely “electrically” speaking they must be identical?

Similarly as its an A221 number this would effect not only the admittedly uncommon CLs range but also the pretty prevalent S Class range and maybe even the SL range.
Whereas I accept maybe some unique CL parts (like a front door card) might drop out of production quickly ... there must be oodles of S Classes.

 

[LostKiwi]

There will be s note in EPC. Ask them to print the evidence and show it to you.

 

[ioweddie]

I would find another dealer

 

[Submariner1]

There will be s note in EPC. Ask them to print the evidence and show it to you.

Thanks Alistair
Just getting my ducks in a row.

 

[Botus]

I would expect this is normal from a main dealer...

I keep saying cars are DFT (designed to fail) the only way to win is to get on lease scheme and let the next mug buying approved used go through all the ****

they developed STAR and XENTRY exclusively so they could employ Muppets and have an exact labour rate calculate through so there's "no debate" on what to fit and how much to charge


they'll be a £100 pound fix but it might involve getting your hands dirty and buying the one part you need from grangemouth

I hope its sorted for sensible money, but can you explain why do we need four new posts created each day when your car has only had two faults since you got it ?

 

[gramey]

Some years ago I had an injector fail, it wasn't holding pressure when off, on my then BMW 528i SE and BMW told me that they came in sets of 6 so it was replace them all or continue to have the problem I was having. I'd bought it used but from a major BMW dealer so it had the BMW Approved used warranty but that didn't cover fuel injectors, go figure?
Well after a discussion with BMW GB they agreed to cover the cost of the injectors but not the labour, the dealer then said they would cover the cost of the labour given that I'd only had the car a matter of weeks. I never did work out why one injector failing meant all six needed to be replaced but as I didn't end up paying for it I didn't push the matter.

 

[Submariner1]

I would find another dealer

In fairness they have been really great for 20 years.
One new dishounerable service manager ...

as the good guys are still there ... been promoted.

I would rather expose this prat.
Initial indications are the senior management were seriously not impressed! And have lined up a conversation with their top guy to make things right.

As for another dealer, the other chain surrounding us have been taken over by a right bunch of scammers ..
Nobody I know has the balls to go there!
Usual story buy out a decent chain, sack all the intelligent well paid people, ... opps that didnt work, so lets screw the customer base to pay for the buy out.
3 years later they are on their knees and someone else moves in.

 

[Submariner1]

I would expect this is normal from a main dealer...

I keep saying cars are DFT (designed to fail) the only way to win is to get on lease scheme and let the next mug buying approved used go through all the ****

they developed STAR and XENTRY exclusively so they could employ Muppets and have an exact labour rate calculate through so there's "no debate" on what to fit and how much to charge


they'll be a £100 pound fix but it might involve getting your hands dirty and buying the one part you need from grangemouth

I hope its sorted for sensible money, but can you explain why do we need four new posts created each day when your car has only had two faults since you got it ?

Because this problem is a Chamelon like issue ... and its still broken ... been in main dealers 2 days and its still not fixed!
And the proposed fix, is illogical expensive, at odds with the prognosis of 2 Mobilo breakdown reports
... so having some balls I am not going to authorise a £870 fix that wont work!
Plus I hate being lied to ....

 

[Uncle Benz]

The best bit will be when you give up with them, drag it home, and fix the thing yourself.

Then you can buy us all a pint

 

[star]

I seem to recall a wiz/tips document that states the front sensors should be replaced as a pair on a 221.

 

[Submariner1]

I seem to recall a wiz/tips document that states the front sensors should be replaced as a pair on a 221.

Thanks Star that is most useful to know.
I would be interested to know why ... a bit like, I personally would only replace discs on both side.

He told me even if one sensor was replaced all the other 3 had to be replaced.
Fair enough if thats what Mercedes dictate, but in that case I feel Mercedes should recognise that they need to do something like price support for the other sensors ... because they are effectively admitting the engineering standards were not good enough in the first place.

 

[mioba]

Course it will cost £862
Can this be true!

Its in conflict with the Mobilo guys report!

And this new manager doesnt seem technical to me

If this is a non service item use an independent. I use MB only for official servicing. If anything else I use my Indy.

Many years ago I needed the door handle replacing where the first aid kit goes on the w220. I went to MB to order the part. The part was 26 pounds. The chap came out and said we took the courtesy to price up installation - 290 pounds. He explained they needed to take the seat out to fit it. Straight away I though what bull as I am very handy.
I got home and fitted it myself in a huge 2 mins.
Moral of the story MB try it on massively to fool customers. They think coz we drive a MB money grows on trees.