Very Very Confused - please help...

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

Lets all have the right terminology
It is silicone not silicon that they put in the fuel, silicones are liquid materils used as lubricants and the like they decompose when cooked into silicates, on the other hand silicon is glass like and solid used to make transistors and as an ingredient in special steels etc.

It was silicone that some poor folks got foisted off with instead of petrol and will decompose into some sort of ash coating on the hot gas side of the lambda probe oxygen sensors reducing their efficacy as a sensor to a degree dependent on the contamination, this may burn off the sensor in time but may not do at all. The sensor is a tube of I belive zircon which is exposed to hot exhaust gas at one side and atmosphere at the other. when running hot (@ 200-300 degrees C) it develops an electrical signal the magnitude and polarity of which can be used as a reliable measure of exhast gas composition, the signal tells your ECU to inject more or less fuel to correct the air/fuel ratio to that required by the 3 way catalytic convertor if it is to be effective in controling emmisions.
The sensor is fitted in the exhaust pipe after the engine and before the cat convertor
I am left wondering as to what if any other damage has been done to both engines and cats by the ash deposits that must have resulted in parts of cars which have been affected by this rather nasty manufacturing error.

If the damaged sensor has led to the ECU adding extra fuel oil washing will have occured in the cylinder bores promoting extra wear of the piston rings and bores, if the cat has got some ash on top of its precious metal (platinum) coatings its life will be shortened.
Does Tescos admission of fault and willingness to pay for repairs also extend to potential long term damage?

its a damned good question. let me put it this way; I don't intend keeping the car long enough to find out. The trouble is, of course, anyone that buys a 2nd hand car now may be buying one that has been affected and may develop faults in the future as a consequence. I guess the answer is to only by cars from "ooop norf"

 

[BarryG]

its a damned good question. let me put it this way; I don't intend keeping the car long enough to find out. The trouble is, of course, anyone that buys a 2nd hand car now may be buying one that has been affected and may develop faults in the future as a consequence. I guess the answer is to only by cars from "ooop norf"

I knew a good reason for living up this way would turn up.
Note to self, ask any potential sellers whether they have been down the smoke in the car

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

this may be an overly optimistic view but as my car seems to have been able to adjust itself back into tolerance levels I am hoping that it means that the contamination wasn't all that severe.

 

[television]

If the damaged sensor has led to the ECU adding extra fuel oil washing will have occured in the cylinder bores promoting extra wear of the piston rings and bores, if the cat has got some ash on top of its precious metal (platinum) coatings its life will be shortened.
Does Tescos admission of fault and willingness to pay for repairs also extend to potential long term damage?

If the LAMBDA has somthing on it, that would mean it would tell the ECU to weaken the mixture, and that has been the case, the same as if the sensor detected nothing,then the fuel mixture would be increased, this is a continuous process.

I think we have to keep our eyes on the trade press and news media for any effects on the CAT. Its all unknown territory and we could push it around for ever.

Malcolm

 

[Myros]

beware of Tesco putting

a "full and final settlement" clause on the paperwork used to deal with this episode. My temptation would be to strike that out and write in a bit about further, forseeable and related faults developing. One for the lawyers amongst us I think.

 

[television]

a "full and final settlement" clause on the paperwork used to deal with this episode. My temptation would be to strike that out and write in a bit about further, forseeable and related faults developing. One for the lawyers anongst us I think.

Hibbo where are you.

malcolm

 

[BarryG]

Fifteen to go Malcolm, are you not worried about the 10000 post bug?
I hear it can cause planes to drop from the sky

 

[eric242340]

this may be an overly optimistic view but as my car seems to have been able to adjust itself back into tolerance levels I am hoping that it means that the contamination wasn't all that severe.

you cant be sure it was contaminated. So why worry so much? Get the new parts parts for free and the rest is history. Regards eric

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

you cant be sure it was contaminated. So why worry so much? Get the new parts parts for free and the rest is history. Regards eric

there's the rub. I will need to "prove" it to get my money back. I guess as Tesco have admitted that garage was contaminated and TP have said (and have printouts) to show the sensors are buggered I don't really need much more. TP have said they will take a sample of the petrol but I suspect it is no longer contaminated as I have filled the tank with other petrol since then.

 

[Hibbo]

Hibbo where are you.

malcolm

Och, we all make the odd typo!

He's edited it now anyway

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

OK chaps. Got the quote from TP. There are some amazing things on there, like the 02 sesonrs are actually £142 + Vat each; they are charging £190 + vat to empty the fuel tank and £69 for a fuel filter and a further £76 to fit it by the looks of things (so that's £170 inc vat to supply and fit a fuel filter !!!!).

If anyone still wants to defend MB charges please have a go at defending these.

I have also attached the diagnostic readout. Can someone explain the "short circuit" messages to me? How does fuel contamination cause a short circuit?

btw, the car is now performing exactly as it use to, no loss of performance, same fuel economy no warning light. I am really not sure there is anything wrong with this car.

oh, one last thing. The top of the quote from TP refers to my car as a C240K, as does the tracker documentation. Is there such a car? I thought K denoted kompressor, but I didn't think they aver made a C240 with a kompressor.

 

[television]

By this token if you ran the car out of fuel, and had a can with you you could save £190. You could buy the kids some sweets for that.

Re the shorts ignore it, it just means that they are too far out of spec or are faulty, and that we know to be the case.

Malcolm

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

By this token if you ran the car out of fuel, and had a can with you you could save £190. You could buy the kids some sweets for that.

Re the shorts ignore it, it just means that they are too far out of spec or are faulty, and that we know to be the case.

Malcolm

thanks Malcolm. Just sent all the documentation off to Tesco. Waiting for them to fall off their perch now. Those prices seem obscene to me.

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

Right, here we go again.

As you may be aware the engine warning light on my car has gone off. I was told (on another thread) of a Mercedes Authorised Repair shop in Brighton and their quote to do the work is considerably less than TP. They quoted me £630 but said that doesn't include all 4 sensors as from their experience only the front 2 need doing on other cars they have worked on with this problem. If, however, I do need the other 2 doing it still comes in at around £400 cheaper than TP.

Why bother when Tesco are paying you may well ask. Well the big issue is time. TP are saying they cant get the parts, probably until the end of next week and that they don;t recommend I drive the car for that long, so I need to get a hire car. To me the car seems to be fine but TP say it could damage the cats if I carry on driving it.

So, off to Rivervale in Brighton (http://www.rivervalecarsmercedes-benzauthorisedrepairer.co.uk/). They plugged my car into the diagnostic software, and invited me into the workshop to watch. Sure enough the same error codes cam up. However, we believe they are the same precicesly becasue TP didn't clear them out.

So they cleared the error codes and retested, no error codes. Then they started the car, and gunned it a bit and checked again, still no error codes. Then they tested it with the engine running. Still no error codes.

So they suggested I drive it for a while and bring it back. I did this, drove about 10-15 miles in various styles (including holding it in gear and gunning it), took it back, plugged it in and.....no error codes.

Rivervale are telling me that as far as they can tell there is absolutely nothing wrong with my car. The codes definately were there and they feel it may be possible that any silicon deposites have burned off and not damaged to sensors.

What I think I will do it this. I will wait for Tesco to get back to me to confirm if they will pay for the work. In the mean time I will continue to drive the car as normal. When Tesco give me the green light I will get the work done and just hire a car for a couple of days, in the mean time I will assume that there is nothing wrong with my car.

I know we have covered this to death but it really does seem to me that whatever was wrong with my car has resolved itself.

 

[television]

Right, here we go again.

As you may be aware the engine warning light on my car has gone off. I was told (on another thread) of a Mercedes Authorised Repair shop in Brighton and their quote to do the work is considerably less than TP. They quoted me £630 but said that doesn't include all 4 sensors as from their experience only the front 2 need doing on other cars they have worked on with this problem. If, however, I do need the other 2 doing it still comes in at around £400 cheaper than TP.

Why bother when Tesco are paying you may well ask. Well the big issue is time. TP are saying they cant get the parts, probably until the end of next week and that they don;t recommend I drive the car for that long, so I need to get a hire car. To me the car seems to be fine by TP say it could damage the cats if I carry on driving it.

So, off to Rivervale in Brighton (http://www.rivervalecarsmercedes-benzauthorisedrepairer.co.uk/). They plugged my car into the diagnostic software, and invited me into the workshop to watch. Sure enough the same error codes cam up. However, we believe they are the same precicesly becasue TP didn't clear them out.

So they cleared the error codes and retested, no error codes. Then they started the car, and gunned it a bit and checked again, still no error codes. Then they tested it with the engine running. Still no error codes.

So they suggested I drive it for a while and bring it back. I did this, drove about 10-15 miles in various styles (including holding it in gear and gunning it), took it back, plugged it in and.....no error codes.

Rivervale are telling me that as far as they can tell there is absolutely nothing wrong with my car. The codes definately were there and they feel it may be possible that any silicon deposites have burned off and not damaged to sensors.

What I think I will do it this. I will wait for Tesco to get back to me to confirm if they will pay for the work. In the mean time I will continue to drive the car as normal. When Tesco give me the green light I will get the work done and just hire a car for a couple of days, in the mean time I will assume that there is nothing wrong with my car.

I know we have covered this to death but it really does seem to me that whatever was wrong with my car has resolved itself.

I still maintained that running at 600c it could be possible to burn it off.
others said that it could not,I do not know how they know that when it has never happened before.

There is of cause the fact that as the engine accepted the new running condition no faults will be shown, through the sensors could still be contaminated

Malcolm

 

[type49]

A friend filled up with tesco's fuel & had running problems. He drained the tank & wiped it out with rags via the hole in the top for the sender unit, replaced the fuel filter & filled with good fuel. Now all OK. The dealer (non MB) said it needed lamba sensors + poss cat but no damage was done. I think dealers are scared of not fixing it first time & so over-diagnosing to save egg on their faces.

 

[eric242340]

Neill, I think this thread has gone on long enough. Post a reply when its resolved, this would be the better answer. And we will all see the outcome.

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

oooooo kay.........?

 

[eric242340]

oooooo kay.........?

Thanks Neill, buy the way they are now building Mercedes in Beijing, would you believe :cry:

 

[Rory]

What I think I will do it this. I will wait for Tesco to get back to me to confirm if they will pay for the work. In the mean time I will continue to drive the car as normal. When Tesco give me the green light I will get the work done and just hire a car for a couple of days, in the mean time I will assume that there is nothing wrong with my car.

Presumeably, if the car is showing no faults now, then ServicePlus would cover it if it did develop a fault in the future?