Planning to tackle the R230 rusty arches...

[Conor]

Hello!

Soooooooo....after much research on the issue, I have decided that I am going to repair the rust on the rear arches of the R230. In a previous life I used to build and fly, crash, repair.. (In that order) model planes and like the idea of getting my hands dirty with some of that kind of activity again..

The main sticking point for me right now is the rust treatment to use.

While I plan on using my Dremel and various attachments to get out as much rust as possible, I am trying to figure out what rust "remover" or dare I say, "converter" to use.

Can anybody suggest something..? I quite like the idea of the gels, that you put on and clean off.

• Hammerite Rust Remover Gel seems kinda legit - Is it any good?
• Fertan fedogel also seems appealing.

The idea with the gel is that I can put it on for a while, rub off and put more on.

Alternatively, I don't like the idea of using harsh acids.. but perhaps it is the way to go? I prefer the idea of removing as opposed to converting as I wouldn't be sure it has all been converted.

I'm wondering how far I will get with the following on my Dremel: Flap wheel, grinding disk, wire brushes..

I know some of you will be thinking that I should stay the hell away from this kind of job... but why not let me off and see how it turns out lol... Dare I say... It's only a car!

 

[LostKiwi]

I'd usually use an electric drill rather than a Dremel unless you're only doing a spot.

I'd also use Bilt Hamber Deox Gel but it's time consuming and requires thorough washing afterwards.

 

[js190d]

A product called Vactan has worked very well on the surface rust on my s210. Treated various areas 18 months ago and rust has not come through again.

Unless you are doing a "hidden" area on the wheelarch i would leave it to the professionals personally, especially on a car as nice as an SL.

 

[Flyinspanner]

Bilt Hamber products are very good.

 

[SL63 Mark]

Just FYI, I waxoyl my rear arches and haven't see a speck of rust in 7 years, I would recommend that as a routine going forward. Needs re-doing every couple of years. Summer is best, as the waxoyl is easier to apply then.

 

[Wighty]

Dinitrol do a good range of treatments

 

[Blobcat]

Easy option...

 

[Wighty]

I think it’s a good plan tackling the wheel arches , summer would make it more pleasant or at the least having sun on the car when you tackle the job .
I tackled both my 10 years old cars (with no visible rust ) this summer by cleaning inside the arches , using some Granville rust converter painted on first , then paining black hammerite paint the next day .
It was a fiddly job , helped by cutting down paint brushes to get a better angle .
Next summer I plan to then spray some Dinitrol or Waxoyl to top it off .
Not in your league , but I’d be interested to know how you get on

 

[RyanSL500]

It’s a bit of a pain, but I paid £200 for the rust to be sorted on both rear arches last year at a garage on the Isle of Wight. The finish was amazing and no sign of the rust! The body shop put lots of wax on it. But I will be putting on the waxoly as mentioned by SL5mark. I’m also going to give the car a full detail and paint correction and then ceramic coat the car. Hopefully this will give it a little more of a chance of keeping the rust away!

 

[umblecumbuz]

Just FYI, I waxoyl my rear arches and haven't see a speck of rust in 7 years, I would recommend that as a routine going forward. Needs re-doing every couple of years. Summer is best, as the waxoyl is easier to apply then.

A tip I now use with Waxoyl, as you mentioned summer, is to sit the gun on a small camping burner I have until both the Waxoyl and the gun container are hot. The Waxoyl turns into a runny milky consistency, so that when I spray it I can see the mist floating into every far crevice, where it solidifies. When i spray it hot into the sills I can see the mist pour out of all the small openings right to the far ends. I also give a quick blast into all the double-skinned panels such as the boot and bonnet.

Make sure the door windows are fully up, or they will also get coated when you spray inside the doors. Although I suppose it guarantees that the windows never go rusty!

 

[Conor]

A tip I now use with Waxoyl, as you mentioned summer, is to sit the gun on a small camping burner I have until both the Waxoyl and the gun container are hot. The Waxoyl turns into a runny milky consistency, so that when I spray it I can see the mist floating into every far crevice, where it solidifies. When i spray it hot into the sills I can see the mist pour out of all the small openings right to the far ends. I also give a quick blast into all the double-skinned panels such as the boot and bonnet.

Make sure the door windows are fully up, or they will also get coated when you spray inside the doors. Although I suppose it guarantees that the windows never go rusty!

A very good point, Waxoyl will be the second stage.. need to eliminate the rust first.

 

[Conor]

Does anybody have any information on the double skinning or seams that exist in the wheel arches? I often hear them referred to in various posts, but don't know what they look like?

What is the issue with them?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Does anybody have any information on the double skinning or seams that exist in the wheel arches? I often hear them referred to in various posts, but don't know what they look like?

What is the issue with them?

Where exactly is your rust? Any pictures?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

A tip I now use with Waxoyl, as you mentioned summer, is to sit the gun on a small camping burner I have until both the Waxoyl and the gun container are hot. The Waxoyl turns into a runny milky consistency, so that when I spray it I can see the mist floating into every far crevice, where it solidifies. When i spray it hot into the sills I can see the mist pour out of all the small openings right to the far ends.

Or alternately dilute the Waxoyl with white spirits until you get the right consistency to spray which is what I tend to do

 

[LostKiwi]

Might be time for the waxoil cat story again..
"I really wanted to get some of this into the Land Rover's chassis before I started using it. I had gone to halfords and bought 2 gallons, and knocked off work early.
I also had the real benefit that SWMBO was out so I had since 3.00pm been shoving the 2 gallon cans into the sink with near boiling water. I should have known things were going to go “slightly wrong” when I started.
I decided to use a Waxoil gun and my compressor, I had the propane burner on in the workshop since 3.00pm flat out and it was like the sahara, in fact it was so hot I decided a T-shirt and shorts was the dress code.
Grabbing some white spirit to further thin the waxoil I entered the kitchen and unscrewed the waxoil lid.
Thhhhuuuumpppppppp !…grwat big snotty big dollop spewed out over the kitchen worksurface... no probs I thought, ...I’ll sort that out when I’ve finished, as I might make "a little bit more mess yet".... glad she's not in.
Clutching hot waxoil injector thingy, part filled with waxoil and mixed with very very warm white spirit I squirted and soaked the chassis blasting away, and also practising holding my breath as it went misty in the workshop.
1 Gallon later I was nearly there, I was at the rear cross member, with yet another huge refill.
I ought to point out that I had also decided that at some of the angles I was at pulling and holding the trigger was a pain so I had devised a cunning lock of an elastic band on the trigger so that I could let it do it things whilst it sprayed away. Shove tube into hole and pull trigger… lock and waggle etc.
Enter the cat.
It sat there and looked at me the way only a cat can... it sniffed (unapprovingly) the dripped waxoil, and I said…
“Huh, you don’t want to be in here matey, this stuff will stick to your fur like brown stuff to a blanket”……and at that very point the jammed on tube extension came off the gun.
Could I release the elastic band round the trigger ? Could I XXXXXX.
The gun squirted warm waxoil/white spirit out at a force never so far experienced, one particularly good jet hit the cat, who bolted, knocking over the 2/3 empty (1/3 full!!) can of hot waxoil/white spirt mix, which flowed oh so well under the landy, and into my clothes T shirt and clothes and skin areas exposed..., but I was still fighting with the hot octopus trying to switch the damned thing off, but I failed, I was saved when it ran out.
Just when I thought nothing could get worse than lying under a Land Rover with waxoil soaked clothes, waxoil dripping onto my hair and face, and running into my ears... Some waxoil drpped onto the lead lamp... ping... Blackness.
It also pinged the fuse for the lighting circuit, getting myself out of the underneath of the landy proved friutfull, in that I knew all the places that waxoil had “leaked”.
Removing dripping clothes I entered house in “minimal Clothes” to resolve fuse prob, when Lights went on I saw the cat…
I AM GOING TO DIE IF SHE SEES THIS !
Here Puddie cattie……
This did not improve the sink/kitchen area one little jot, .....ever tried holding a 'waxoiled cat' in a sink with water and rags, and especially when cat does not enjoy it ?
1 hour later cat was scrubbed and very peed off with me, I’ve had 2 baths, and also cleaned the bath it seems that the bath will not be rusty...scrubbed kitchen floor, sink, worktop
Will she notice?
Cat stinks, garage sticks, alley way stinks, I stink, kitchen smells of lemon washing up liquid, which strangely we seem to nearly be out of, floor stinks.
She will be back any minute [gulp]. Nice job on the Landy tho....... ))
...later that evening...... Alleyway door closes and SWMBO walks in..... "have a nice time dear ?......." "what the HELL is that smell ?"
"Smell ?....er do you mean the waxoil ?" "Is that what it is - its disgusting" "Er..really"....
"yes really, the alleyway stinks, I mean I could smell it when I got out of the car..."
"er...really ?"
"yes, Really, I mean its stinking everywhere out, its even permutated the house " "really"
"yes really and [ picks up cat - I look away at telly and pray]...and ....good grief even the cat smells of it its ....[ at this point the cat growls.....probably hand enough of being "handled" during the evening...]..."WELL if your going to be like that madam you grumpy old thing" ...[places cat down firmly - cat grumbles some more].. cat exits still grumbling
"Charming... well... Anyway, have you finished?"
THOUGHTS...............
I've got away with it...."all done"...I've got away with it...."think I'll have a beer"...I've got away with it....I've got away with it...."Would you like a glass of wine ?"....I've got away with it....yippee....I've got away with it....and
SHE'S GOT THE HUMP WITH THE CAT TOO - NOT ME !!
Beer.... Bed.... RESULT....... !
But a bit close for comfort......far to close"

 

[Conor]

Where exactly is your rust? Any pictures?

Hi Alex,

Basically the rust is shown below.. it's light enough on arch, but one of the sides seems medium.. i'm just wondering about the make up of the arch and the skins/seams etc.

 

[alexanderfoti]

OK. There is a U shaped channel on the arch, you will need to get back to metal all the way around to get it all. As you sand, you will find the rust goes much further under the paint, than the surface would indicate. You will probably need to do the whole flat face of the arch at the least.

It's all single skin though so no major issues, you can get to the back of it as well if needed.

A word of caution though, I would take rust like that to the body shop, as its on display and will need paint, blending in with the surrounding body etc.

They shouldnt charge too much for that.

 

[Conor]

OK. There is a U shaped channel on the arch, you will need to get back to metal all the way around to get it all. As you sand, you will find the rust goes much further under the paint, than the surface would indicate. You will probably need to do the whole flat face of the arch at the least.

It's all single skin though so no major issues, you can get to the back of it as well if needed.

A word of caution though, I would take rust like that to the body shop, as its on display and will need paint, blending in with the surrounding body etc.

They shouldnt charge too much for that.

Ok, I am aware of the channel inside, which retains sludge alright, but some people were talking about some kind of double skinned seams or something?

I had been toying about with getting the a professional shop to do it. I am happy enough to have a crack at eliminating the rust myself, treating and covering in a base coat.. then having the body shop match the paint.

The reason for this is that I can't find anybody that I can trust not to waste my cash in and around London. I did get one quote from a well regarded professional outside of London, but at 1600-1800, that is simply too much. The other quotes, were clearly only going to brush/paint the arches.

I have bought some Bilt Hamber Deox Gel which I will apply numerous times and wash off with Surfex HD/Meths. Then apply Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 to seal.

Then possibly some epoxy primer.

The plan is just to be very thorough with many cycles of the remover gel.

 

[js190d]

A word of caution though, I would take rust like that to the body shop, as its on display and will need paint, blending in with the surrounding body etc.

They shouldnt charge too much for that.

A repair like that is best left to professionals i would say. Looks like rear bumper needs to come off as well to get to rear edge of arch.

You could use a flap wheel on it yourself to save bodyshop time and take the bumper off prior to drop off.

 

[alexanderfoti]

That's fair enough. I assume that the £1600 must have been to cut out both arches and weld in repair panels?

Rear bumper does need to come off, and it's more work on a 230 than most, as all the interior trim needs to come out, to invariably drill out the bolts that will be rusted through that hold the bumper on.

We have a good local place, but they are super busy the whole time and we are quite a way out of London.