Have MB sorted hybrids out?

[davemercedes]

I've been casually looking at hybrids - in particular, the Mitsubishi Outlander which seems to have good user feedback. I'm not particularly anxious for a change but I'm increasingly worried that the cost of running a diesel car will become prohibitive and as SWMBO and I are both retired, the annual mileage on my MB continues to fall so lining up a petrol car or hybrid might be a good idea...

But over the last few years most of the feedback on the forum about MB hybrids was generally quite negative and the advice seemed to be just to leave MB hybrids alone while companies like Toyota kept churning out their models with apparent success. I don't know how quickly it changed, but nowadays there seem to be a lot of used MB hybrids available, most of which are showing quite high mileages - a quick look at EBay today with "Mercedes hybrid" search term produces well over 50 cars, mostly with quite high mileage. There's even one - a 2015 E300 with 205,000 miles on it (and one lady owner) for £7250.

So have MB actually sorted out the technology - and are they a good buy now?

 

[Blobcat]

If your mileage is so low why not keep what you have or get a petrol?
The outlanders do pretty much zero electric range. It was a tax dodge for company car drivers - just like all hybrids. Made to get round tax rules, nothing to do with the environment

 

[Craiglxviii]

I wouldn’t buy a used MB hybrid if I were you, Dave…

 

[A.J.]

I've been casually looking at hybrids - in particular, the Mitsubishi Outlander which seems to have good user feedback. I'm not particularly anxious for a change but I'm increasingly worried that the cost of running a diesel car will become prohibitive and as SWMBO and I are both retired, the annual mileage on my MB continues to fall so lining up a petrol car or hybrid might be a good idea...

I don't know if it will make a huge difference to maintenance, repair and residuals but do not forget that Mitsubishi pulled out of the UK and Europe July 2020 after suffering heavy losses. Mitsubishi's future may be a bit shaky

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Old old mantra still stands as far as I’m concerned if you want an EV or Hybrid buy Toyota/Lexus they have been in the electrical vehicle design/manufacture/warranty scene for decades. The problem with MB is they don’t offer at least an eight year warranty on these vehicles so if you have a problem out of the 3 year warranty (which you will) you are on your own and the cost to repair is eye watering

 

[Chrishazle]

Never mind the question about "have they sorted this or that", until the price both new and second hand gets into real world country I will be sticking with my LEZ compliatn EU4 diesel S204 C220 and ULEZ compliant SLK280. Trading in both would release how little - I reckon about £11-12K, for which I cannot buy even one suitable hybrid or EV, and as a pensioner I do not have the funds I had in my working days so have absolutely no interest in taking on a big debt (one way or another) or releasing retirement assets to allow such a purchase. The tree huggers can moan as much as they like, until they're prepared to pick up the tab my view will not change.

 

[jimshann]

I live in Australia and have a 2016 C350e with just 33,000kms(20,600miles) on it. I looked at buying the new C300 with my car in part exchange. Mercedes were not very interested since the batteries are only guaranteed for 8 years and they could only offer me a paltry figure since they would need to replace the Hybrid battery if they had to give their usual 2 year warranty on a car.

I bought the C350e for nearly $100,000 and was offered around $30,000 in exchange. $70,000 loss in 3 years!
I bought the car for the economy, to help climate change, and all the good reasons. However, if Mercedes had told me the downside after 5 years I wouldn't have gone near the car.

When looking at the new W206 it is not as highly specced as the C350e and costs considerably more.

I will live with my existing car for quite a while, now, because of the above.

 

[jimshann]

On another aspect of Hybrid batteries.
What causes them to be spent?
For instance, my car has 20,000 miles on it and is nearly 6 years old, but I rarely charge the Hybrid battery more than 4 times a month.
Does daily charging and depleting the battery cause it to wear more than the way I use it?
Is there a way of checking the condition of a battery to see whether it is on its way out?

For instance, my laptop has a programme called "Battery Bar" and it tells you the remaining life of the charge, but also the battery wear i.e. 8% of 51,504 mWh.
This gives me an indication of how the battery is depleting and how much longer I have before the battery becomes useless.

 

[rorywquin]

@jimshann

When your driving range starts dropping your batteries are starting to age - is that something you can monitor? Li-Ion which I believe are used in most cars can take 3000+ cycles of charging (~ 8 years of daily charging?). They don’t like the voltage getting too low but the car systems will take care of that. Weather can affect them. Really cold or hot? Many variables.

 

[jimshann]

@jimshann

When your driving range starts dropping your batteries are starting to age - is that something you can monitor? Li-Ion which I believe are used in most cars can take 3000+ cycles of charging (~ 8 years of daily charging?). They don’t like the voltage getting too low but the car systems will take care of that. Weather can affect them. Really cold or hot? Many variables.

Never gets too cold in Sydney. My hope is that my irregular and less frequent charging habits mean the battery will be OK for a while longer. I seem to get the same mileage from the battery, as when new, but, that depends on how you drove it just before charging. All in all, I am averaging 6.5l/100kms which pleases me since I am a reasonably enthusiastic driver.

 

[rorywquin]

Never gets too cold in Sydney. My hope is that my irregular and less frequent charging habits mean the battery will be OK for a while longer. I seem to get the same mileage from the battery, as when new, but, that depends on how you drove it just before charging. All in all, I am averaging 6.5l/100kms which pleases me since I am a reasonably enthusiastic driver.

Sounds fine but I’m not clued up on EVs. Seems like you will be fine for many years.

I lived in Adelaide & Brisbane for 8 years upto 2015 - was involved on Olympic Dam in SA and then Coal Seam Gas in Queensland (Go Reds).

A life long friend lives in Sydney so I’ve also visited there quite often.

I miss the weather.

 

[rf065]

I've been casually looking at hybrids - in particular, the Mitsubishi Outlander which seems to have good user feedback.

Watched an episode of Top Gear or 5th gear, cant remember which exactly, where they had a selection of hybrids on test.
The Outlander was quickly passed over, it was one of the first ever hybrids but they reckoned all of the later ones had quickly surpassed it and was not worth even considering anymore.

 

[davemercedes]

Hello All!

Apologies for starting a thread and then disappearing... (I've been unwell but no doubt I'll live)!

With the mileage we're doing these days, it's most likely that I'll follow Blobcat's suggestion i.e. he said: "If your mileage is so low why not keep what you have or get a petrol?" and frankly, that's probably what I'll do. And Craig's (as usual, rather blunt): "I wouldn't if I were you..." hits the spot too!

My car still looks fine although I don't have the energy to wash and polish it these days (and I still prefer the frontal "gunsight" which nowadays is understated when compared to the enormous MB circular emblem on more modern models and at risk of someone up there watching me, there's nothing wrong with it - I still get a rather "bigheaded" feeling whenever I get in and turn the key etc - because apart from a knackered battery some 5-6 years ago (rectified by a well-priced replacement from MB Avonmouth - thanks!) she just does what I expect and starts - first time, every time, regardless of the weather etc. I am however, aware that diesel is not good for people nor our planet etc but at my time of life with understandably reduced income, if I do go for a change I would have to trade it in and it would only end up with someone else - who might well cover more miles than we do and cause more "damage". It's a real catch-22: I happily joke nowadays that with 106K on the clock she's nearly run in!

Thanks to everybody for responding - it's a very interesting subject!

 

[davemercedes]

Old old mantra still stands as far as I’m concerned if you want an EV or Hybrid buy Toyota/Lexus they have been in the electrical vehicle design/manufacture/warranty scene for decades. The problem with MB is they don’t offer at least an eight year warranty on these vehicles so if you have a problem out of the 3 year warranty (which you will) you are on your own and the cost to repair is eye watering

You're probably dead right, Malcolm and we've had a couple of hybrid sagas on the forum that suggested that MB's attitude was not exactly supportive to the customer! It always interests me to look at Toyota Estimas and variants. What's on the Bay are usually recent imports aged up to 10 years or so from Japan auctions and there's a few running round where I live in the West Midlands - it always strikes me how very clean looking they are although of course that could be at least partly because they're only doing low mileage nowadays. But they are an enormous package if that's the kind of vehicle you're looking for.

 

[davemercedes]

I don't know if it will make a huge difference to maintenance, repair and residuals but do not forget that Mitsubishi pulled out of the UK and Europe July 2020 after suffering heavy losses. Mitsubishi's future may be a bit shaky

These are the unanswerable questions really, Andy and any answers gi may well not be very trustworthy... It's interesting though that the "used" prices for the Outlander aren't exactly bargain buys one would need to watch quite carefully to work out whether current used prices are based on actual sales performance or "wishful thinking" (i.e.: more likely, price "stimulation"...),

 

[davemercedes]

Never mind the question about "have they sorted this or that", until the price both new and second hand gets into real world country I will be sticking with my LEZ compliatn EU4 diesel S204 C220 and ULEZ compliant SLK280. Trading in both would release how little - I reckon about £11-12K, for which I cannot buy even one suitable hybrid or EV, and as a pensioner I do not have the funds I had in my working days so have absolutely no interest in taking on a big debt (one way or another) or releasing retirement assets to allow such a purchase. The tree huggers can moan as much as they like, until they're prepared to pick up the tab my view will not change.

We're coming from about the same start point, Chris and I guess similar financial bias so I find my point of view is very similar to yours. Quite frankly, what matters most to me and SWMBO nowadays is the question whether I can afford to keep the car...

 

[davemercedes]

I live in Australia and have a 2016 C350e with just 33,000kms(20,600miles) on it. I looked at buying the new C300 with my car in part exchange. Mercedes were not very interested since the batteries are only guaranteed for 8 years and they could only offer me a paltry figure since they would need to replace the Hybrid battery if they had to give their usual 2 year warranty on a car.

I bought the C350e for nearly $100,000 and was offered around $30,000 in exchange. $70,000 loss in 3 years!
I bought the car for the economy, to help climate change, and all the good reasons. However, if Mercedes had told me the downside after 5 years I wouldn't have gone near the car.

When looking at the new W206 it is not as highly specced as the C350e and costs considerably more.

I will live with my existing car for quite a while, now, because of the above.

Your story makes me shudder, Jim - we all know there's usually a hefty loss on the first+ purchase but your overall loss is eye-watering. By comparison, the purchase cost of my S203 (2007 C220 Diesel Auto Estate) is almost negligible - I bought it in 2013 with 67K on the clock and it now has 107K showing but does/gives me everything I need at present. This makes me more likely to "stick" where I am for the present. I do have some guilty feelings over continuing to run a diesel but as I said, if I was to ante up and go for another fuel source/upgrade my car would end up being sold on as a part-ex (and the used-car buyer would be very happy too)!

 

[sonic]

I am in the same position as you but financially sound, I have a 2011 E350CDI & the wife has a 2016 SLC250CDI. The E class manages 48mpg only used for runs, & the SLC manages 50mpg overall. I could afford a new hybrid or EV but I am not prepared to pay about £40K for one.
Both cars a very reliable so I am sticking with them.

 

[Blobcat]

I am in the same position as you but financially sound, I have a 2011 E350CDI & the wife has a 2016 SLC250CDI. The E class manages 48mpg only used for runs, & the SLC manages 50mpg overall. I could afford a new hybrid or EV but I am not prepared to pay about £40K for one.
Both cars a very reliable so I am sticking with them.

Best thing you can do for the environment, keep what you have and maintain it

 

[rf065]

the wife has a 2016 SLC250CDI.
Both cars a very reliable so I am sticking with them.

Interesting the SLC is reliable, my SLC300 with only 10,000 miles from new has to date had a new roof fitted under warranty as it leaked. Since the warranty ran out I've had to replace one of the headlights as the LED intelligent light system stopped working, the blind spot assist stopped also and required a new radar sensor. All in all, I've spent almost £3000 on repairs on a car with such a low mileage. Mercedes are not interested and turned down any contribution.
To top it all, I now have an occasional warning that the brake assist and a few other things are not working, god knows what thats going to cost when it finally stops working for good. And, occasionally the roof refuses to go down or up in one smooth operation. Mercedes, quality cars, I dont think so!