Pondering buying my first MB

[longitude]

I've aspired to be a MB owner for some years but now I've decided to take the plunge I find it difficult to work out the differences between models. I'm interested in the C & E class but what's the difference between them. Do members have a view which is best?

 

[Mic]

Hello and welcome.....I think you will be getting a lot of response to that question.

Mic

 

[Xtractorfan]

The E class is slightly bigger and has more interior room, so if you like space then go for the E class.. The C class is basically a smaller version of the E class...

 

[turbopete]

c is more sporty to drive but e is bigger and more comfortable, in my experience of the older models (202 and 210)
which is better is purely a personal thing. what you want it to do, how big a car you need, parking space you have and so on mean we all have different preferences and requirements and therefore there is no 'best' its whats 'best for you'

 

[biglips]

If you can give us some more info as to your needs, likely annual mileage, budget, new, modern or classic and we will help guide you towards the best option

 

[longitude]

If you can give us some more info as to your needs, likely annual mileage, budget, new, modern or classic and we will help guide you towards the best option

Annual mileage 8k at most, I will be buying used, budget around £17k. Most journeys weekday are a 7 mile commute but at weekends we get out and about. I usually replace my cars every three years and buy new Hondas but with MB's reputation for reliability and longevity I'm seriously thinking about a used Merc.

 

[S.Speed]

Annual mileage 8k at most, I will be buying used, budget around £17k. Most journeys weekday are a 7 mile commute but at weekends we get out and about. I usually replace my cars every three years and buy new Hondas but with MB's reputation for reliability and longevity I'm seriously thinking about a used Merc.

Well you can get a very nice example of either for that sort of money..
If you go for the E class then please do go for facelifted version as this has been "sorted" properly by having 2000 "improvements apparently from the pre facelift.
I think the thing that surprises me about the E class most is just how easy it is to drive for such a large car.
Try to make sure you get rear parking sensors..I had to have mine retro fitted..
I find the sound system on my late 07 very impressive indeed.. I would say it has one of the best standard systems I have ever heard.
The build quality and interior fit and finish is superb and cannot be faulted by me.
----------------------------------------------------------

Your budget puts you in 204 territory and that is a very well respected model with minimal problems..It looks like they really have regained reliability.
I love the exterior of the 204 especially in that off white colour..BUT
In my opinion the interior is a little cheap looking/feeling..
Try to keep off the so called Blue efficiency models..

 

[The Crooner]

You should consider spending between £5 - 8K on a W124 model from a specialist. Your running costs will be no more than a newrer car, maybe less with independent servicing, the build quality far better, and the whole experience a joy. A good car will last you for at least 10 - 15 years at your annual mileage and will save you a small fortune in depreciation over that time.

Your money would buy something like this for instance:

http://www.avantgardecars.co.uk/viewcar/MERCEDES BENZ 300D SALOON/55/L77LJW

Tony

 

[jberks]

In your budget, you have access to the current C or the last of the old E's.
The E is bigger and better appointed but the C is sportier and easier to park. Drive both and see which suits you better. Basic MB spec is pretty good these days but extras are expensive and vary wildly so things like leather, heated seats, sat nav, parking sensors etc all differ between individual cars so you need to have a good idea what you insist on and what's nice to have.
I'm not sure a used MB is quite as trouble free as a new/ 3 year old Honda, but they're a damn site more satisfying to own.

 

[longitude]

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated. I'll let you know when I've taken the plunge. No doubt I will be posting a lot more then!

 

[Boogs]

Try to keep off the so called Blue efficiency models..

Can you expand on this a bit, its a new on on me.
Thanks

 

[jberks]

You should consider spending between £5 - 8K on a W124 model from a specialist. Your running costs will be no more than a newrer car, maybe less with independent servicing, the build quality far better, and the whole experience a joy. A good car will last you for at least 10 - 15 years at your annual mileage and will save you a small fortune in depreciation over that time.

Your money would buy something like this for instance:

http://www.avantgardecars.co.uk/viewcar/MERCEDES BENZ 300D SALOON/55/L77LJW

Tony

Tony
That car is already 17 years old. Are you seriously suggesting that a non merc fanatic would or could run one for another 15 years? Sure the 124 was fabulously well built and admittedly better built in many ways that the current products but there isn't that much in it.
I often feel the 124 is elevated by some to a level it can't possibly live up to.

At 20+ years old, even a enthusiast owner is going to have to spend the odd weekend with a screwdriver fettling this and that. Wiring, connectors, bushes, seals etc all deteriorate with age irrespective of how well they were originally designed. At some point, you either need to spend serious money replacing pretty much everything or else the combined weakesses are going to combine to produce poor running and unreliability.
I had a 202 which was a fabulous car, built at the same time and to a similar level to the 124. It was a fabulous car when I had it, but I had the opportunity to drive it again when it was 13 and whilst it was still fabulous, it didn't run as well, it needed some minor mechanical attention and the bodywork needed some attention in a few spots too. If I'd have had garage room I'd have bought it back to keep as a classic but at the same time I wouldn't have recommended it to my friends. Run without the tlc of an enthusiast it was going to give trouble.

I wouldn't suggest anyone but a enthusiast buys any car, whether merc or other, thats over 12 years old. Especially not for over £7000.

 

[Thincat]

I usually replace my cars every three years and buy new Hondas but with MB's reputation for reliability and longevity I'm seriously thinking about a used Merc.

MB's reputation for longevity and reliability has been built up over many years. Before MB became a volume manufacturer (circa 1997 ?) their cars were "over-engineered" and lasted well. The later models are not so good and have a very bad reputation for rust and also a bad reputation for reliability. Don't expect a Mercedes to match your Hondas in terms of build quality or reliability because it won't. Mercs also cost a lot to repair - I guess Hondas do also but they don't often need repair.

There are some indications that MB quality is getting better but if you're buying s/h watch out for rust (see the stickies on the forum) and watch out for the various weak points on whatever model you choose. I bought my Merc new and was expecting a reliable, high quality car, with low depreciation but was very disappointed. I think the current levels of depreciation affecting modern MB cars reflect what people think of their quality.

But, when they're going, they're good cars.

 

[S.Speed]

There are some indications that MB quality is getting better but if you're buying s/h watch out for rust (see the stickies on the forum) and watch out for the various weak points on whatever model you choose..

I dont think rust will be an issue when he has 17G to spend..
They will be galvanized for sure.

 

[dizzy lizzy]

hello and welcome....good luck in your search.....

 

[The Crooner]

Tony
That car is already 17 years old. Are you seriously suggesting that a non merc fanatic would or could run one for another 15 years? Sure the 124 was fabulously well built and admittedly better built in many ways that the current products but there isn't that much in it.
I often feel the 124 is elevated by some to a level it can't possibly live up to.

At 20+ years old, even a enthusiast owner is going to have to spend the odd weekend with a screwdriver fettling this and that. Wiring, connectors, bushes, seals etc all deteriorate with age irrespective of how well they were originally designed. At some point, you either need to spend serious money replacing pretty much everything or else the combined weakesses are going to combine to produce poor running and unreliability.
I had a 202 which was a fabulous car, built at the same time and to a similar level to the 124. It was a fabulous car when I had it, but I had the opportunity to drive it again when it was 13 and whilst it was still fabulous, it didn't run as well, it needed some minor mechanical attention and the bodywork needed some attention in a few spots too. If I'd have had garage room I'd have bought it back to keep as a classic but at the same time I wouldn't have recommended it to my friends. Run without the tlc of an enthusiast it was going to give trouble.

I wouldn't suggest anyone but a enthusiast buys any car, whether merc or other, thats over 12 years old. Especially not for over £7000.

I am suggesting that the 15 year cost of buying and independently maintaining a solid, low mileage 124 would be significantly cheaper than the TCO of a much newer car changed every three years.

I am also suggesting that the total pleasure of that ownership would be higher.

The advent of "total life warranties" with a mileage limit of 100,000 suggests to me that just like every other commodity which we now buy, which is a shadow of what we bought 10 years ago, cars will go the same way. Just compare the quality of the grill pan rack supplied with your new oven, to that which you probably still have in a cupboard somewhere, from the oven you bought 20 years ago. Look at the flimsy internals of your new dishwasher.

Pleasure of ownership is important to me, especially in my car, perhaps someone with the necessary knowledge could do the maths which I'm sure would prove me right.

And to reply to your specific point, I dont dispute that you may get the occasional big bill maintaing your 124 - you are also going to get them from the dealer when you service your new one to MB schedule - perhaps rather more often, and maybe with a lot less satisfaction thrown in.

It wont be long before you need to depreciate your new car by 100% over three years - maintaining an old one then will make a whole lot of sense.

Tony

 

[MB partsman]

It wont be long before you need to depreciate your new car by 100% over three years - maintaining an old one then will make a whole lot of sense.

Tony

Soon there wont be many, if any, Mercs lasting much over 10 years old.
The cost of repairs will outweigh the residual of the car - we are already seeing many A classes being scrapped for the due to minor faults - yaw sensors on early A class @ £1000 for one example.
IMO residuals will continue to fall on cars, maybe not to the level The Crooner has suggested, as at 3years old many will be covered by warranty, but who can really see the sense on spending over a grand replacing one electrical component, on a car worth £2000 - £3000?

With LED lamps becoming the norm, even roadside repairs are becoming problematic, where on an older car you would replace a generic bulb for £1.00, you now need to replace a whole lamp support @ £25.00 or more - those parts are model (even trim level spec) specific - often special order parts - how easy will they be to obtain when the cars been out of production for a few years?

I believe we are on the cusp of cars really becoming part of the throwaway culture, and when that happens, secondhand prices will drop like stones.......

 

[Thincat]

I dont think rust will be an issue when he has 17G to spend..
They will be galvanized for sure.

That's what I thought when I bought my 2001 SLK. I thought the rust issue on cars had been beaten in the late '80s when even Vauxhall started galvanising their car bodies - my 1990 MR2 didn't have a spot of rust on it when I sold it in 2001 (big mistake). I've read that MB started fully galvanising their cars in 2005 (?). I don't know if this is actually true but there still seem to be posts from people with later MB cars who have rust, which is utterly unacceptable. The Indie I used to use had an MB van which was 4 years old and rust spots in the most unlikely places - which MB refused to repair. If MB are now galvanising their cars (about 20 years after most manufacturers) then maybe they're not doing it very well.

I'm sure that the poor quality of MB cars over the last 10 years or so has contributed to their increased depreciation. However, that does mean that there are some bargains to be had, I guess - if you choose carefully. Buy the latest model you can afford, check it very carefully for rust, mechanical problems and electrical problems, and drive a very hard bargain because there are some very fanciful prices out there.

 

[jberks]

I believe we are on the cusp of cars really becoming part of the throwaway culture, and when that happens, secondhand prices will drop like stones.......

Its very true that parts are getting unfeasbl;y expensive. A prime example is the SBC pump on 2002-2007 Es. Ok MB are replacing them up to 10 years old but if one goes on a 15 year old will the owner be prepared to fork out £1500+ on repairs. Highly doubtful.
However, there is another side to this. Take the 210 dash. When mine went, I had the option of replacing it at £800 or living with it. Then came the people originally repairing them for £250, now thats down to £150 and you can buy the cables off ebay.
Where there is a demand, someone will fill it, so sure, at the moment you need to buy a new cluster if an LED goes, but when the demand gets to the right level, someone will produce a repair kit. People used to say that cars would be scrapped when the ECU went. ECUs can now be fixed for sensible money.
It sorts itself out.
As far as build quality - having lived with 123s 202s 210 and 211s and even driven a 204 for a period, I have to say that in terms of structural strength etc, I've noticed very little deterioration. Sure they built in some issues with electronics reliability but thats generally been sorted over time and duff units replaced with improved ones.
I fully expect to see 210s and 211s running around for another 20 years yet.

 

[st4]

I dont think rust will be an issue when he has 17G to spend..
They will be galvanized for sure.

Mine is galvanised and has corrosion.

E class estates on 06 plates have rust on the boot door.

At £17k though, it has to be a 211 E class. They are just so much "more" car for the money, and very nice to drive fast or slow.

Facelifted is the way to go, and there is an engine for everyone from 220cdi, to 320cdi rocket ship diesel to an 5000/5500cc V8 for those who do not do many miles but dont mind fuel bills of those who do.

A C class is very nice, but the bigger car is a more satisfying car and nicer to "be" in.