That's ok then!

[jberks]

I had a rant at customer services with regard to the fact that I don't consider it acceptable that at 5 years, my clock and temp guage no longer work. Plus as this seems to affect a lot of fellow owners, not counting the S class owners who can't read their speedo's it there is clearly a design/manufacturing fault. Added to the fact that its only a connection fault then perhaps they should do a service kit / exchange program and stop ripping everyone off for £600 a shot.

Their reply was
With regards to your request for an exchange program we can advise that as we do not consider there to be a common manufacturing defect with the instrument panels on our Mercedes-Benz E-Class models and exchange program is not applicable.

Clearly I've got it wrong then!

 

[desrobinson]

Faulty temperature gauge

Since my 95 C200 was serviced 2 years ago I have been experiencing a problem with my temperature gauge whereby after the car has warmed up to it's optimum operating temperature the temp gauge needle behave erratically. It shoots upwards off the scale and back down to normal and then shoots upwards off the scale again to the extent that the needle sticks at in 12 oclock position. A swift slap on the dash above the instrument panel forces the needle to it's correct position but it shoots up again. This goes on for about 5 minutes until the gauge settles down to give me the reading I expect. I went back to MB and explained that this problem was not present before the service. I was promptly told that I need a new instrument panel at the tune of £600. Well I was not happy with that and I said that they were neglegent and I want something done about it. They agreed to have a look at it which they did and then told me, again, I do need a new panel which I have not done. I personally think that they adjusted the position of the panel and did not refit it correctly because now if I press the panel into it's housing, while it is erratic, the gauge gives me the correct reading. When I release the pressure off the panel it goes nutty again, until it settles down. All my other gauges work perfectly. I think that your point about there being a connection fault is accurate and MB should accept this.

MB really have a cheek for charging so much money for their products and then essential instruments like temp gauge and speedometer stop working AND expect us to pay for these faults to be corrected. Faults like these should be corrected/swapped out. No questions asked.

 

[kit820]

The outgoing S Class has a tendency of losing all its gauges on its high tech dash. Perhaps thats the MB way of getting you to trade in for a new car every three years when the warranty expires, thats if the dash lasted that long.

 

[paulcallender]

The outgoing S Class has a tendency of losing all its gauges on its high tech dash. Perhaps thats the MB way of getting you to trade in for a new car every three years when the warranty expires, thats if the dash lasted that long.

In days gone by, Mercedes 'over-engineered' their cars, with a result that they lasted a long long time. With the W210 onwards, Mercedes realised this and cut back on the amount of 'over-engineering' in their products, with the result that the cars now last as long (or short) as the average motor. I can assure you, instrument panels fail in other 'old' cars too, and their manufacturers don't consider it necessary to refund everyone either. They get dirty, they vibrate, they wear out, right?

The fact that they sold you the car in the first place, combined with the numbers of people who pay their high prices, means at least in the short term they are still bringing the money in, of sorts. Of course, their long term reputation is suffering. I believe there have been many threads in the past relating to reliability, reputation, etc etc.

 

[dougtsc]

Slight thread creep but can anyone let me know the e-mail address for Mercedes customer services.

Thanks

 

[Bolide]

Get a grip

Des


Get a grip here: this is a 10-year old car. Expecting it to work perfectly after 10 years is unreasonable

Equally unreasonable is expecting the dealer to entertain the idea of fixing your instrument panel after a service. Unless you asked them to work on it, or they had a reason to touch it, neither of which you mention, then it's a coincidence and not "neglegent"

Ranting about the prices they charge and the lack of an instant swop-out for ten-year old components misses the point. If they gave a 10-year "No questions asked" warranty, as you want, then the price would be even higher and you'd be even more unhappy. Does anyone offer such a warranty? No. So why expect Mercedes to do so?

Why not do what the rest of us do - buy a new secondhand one from Mercman?

Not sure you'll agree with me, but think about it. If what you want is perfection buy a new car and change it every year. If what you want is a good 10-year old car then buy one and take the lumps like the rest of us


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[LAMAR]

Des


Get a grip here: this is a 10-year old car. Expecting it to work perfectly after 10 years is unreasonable

Equally unreasonable is expecting the dealer to entertain the idea of fixing your instrument panel after a service. Unless you asked them to work on it, or they had a reason to touch it, neither of which you mention, then it's a coincidence and not "neglegent"

Ranting about the prices they charge and the lack of an instant swop-out for ten-year old components misses the point. If they gave a 10-year "No questions asked" warranty, as you want, then the price would be even higher and you'd be even more unhappy. Does anyone offer such a warranty? No. So why expect Mercedes to do so?

Why not do what the rest of us do - buy a new secondhand one from Mercman?

Not sure you'll agree with me, but think about it. If what you want is perfection buy a new car and change it every year. If what you want is a good 10-year old car then buy one and take the lumps like the rest of us


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

I thing you are spot on just because its a car why do people expect dealers to cover the cost when things go wrong ouside of warranty. try asking Hotpoint to fix your washing machine if it was 10 years old for nothing. you are

 

[Rory]

Some components on some cars in the US have 10yr w'tees.

Almost all have better warranty than we get.

 

[kit820]

So the answer to us all is perhaps to lessen our expectation on the mercs. It is somewhat disappointing though coming from a family with a mercedes tradition. I do apologize for all these nags as clearly some of you are getting bored and tired of it. i shall learn to cope but a little time to adjust would be much appreciated.

 

[jberks]

Absolutely - at ten years I'd cut them some slack, at 4 years I'm a little less generous. Even then, I don't expect any freebies. I guess my gripe was that the problem is very minor (probably little more than a dry joint) and I don't even expect the techs to get their soldering irons out, in fact I don't expect MB to do anything directly themselves. After all, this is a VDO cock-up. What I DO consider reasonable however, is for MB to ensure that where practical, their suppliers provide an exchange / repair facility for components or at the very least, a service manual for external repairers and a ready supply of parts so MB customers have a choice between repair and replacement on expensive components.

Most workshops simply refuse to look at MB clusters even though some do work on Audi/BMW kit. I suspect this is because parts, details and test rigs are pretty much impossible to come by.

If Bosch refused to supply alternator regulators, bearings or bushes and your only hope for a fix was to buy a brand new alternator from MB at £400+, (probably cheaper than a new cluster!) this would be considered unacceptable by most owners. It is a regular failure point, so a structure exists for you to get a fix. Either a factory exchange or have a local shop do the work. Bosch etc build alternators/starters etc and assist with documentation so that components can be replaced and you don't have to buy a new one. MB aren't directly involved but that doesn't matter.
MB don't insist you buy a new engine, just because the water pump has failed!

I am simply saying that the same consideration should be afforded to other expensive components such as dash clusters, ECUs, ABS controllers etc (pretty much anything that costs over £200 or so, taking £75-£150 as a normal repair charge) and as things get ever higher tech, this problem is only going to get worse. This should be part of the supply agreement with the manufacturer, that they have a repair facility or provide a parts catalogue and supply chain. But as this doesn't show on the P&L a/c and balance sheet, why would an accountant ( read MB exec) care! - answer - they don't.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

copy your post into an email and email MB and see whether they will respond. seems like a normal request to me.

 

[jberks]

I thing you are spot on just because its a car why do people expect dealers to cover the cost when things go wrong ouside of warranty. try asking Hotpoint to fix your washing machine if it was 10 years old for nothing. you are

Sure - but you can still get the parts. So why can't I get the bits for a component that costs 3 times as much and was still being manufactured 3 years ago.

 

[paulcallender]

Taking a holistic view - there are plenty of other car manufacturers out there, with varying approaches to parts supply. For example, Volkswagen are reasonably well served by their dealership and there are also many independent parts specialists. It was your choice to go for Mercedes, and its a consumer's market.

There is a gap between the reliability/quality/customer care and the 'perception' of the brand by the public at large. Luckily for Mercedes (although it cannot last), that gap is in their favour, they are still 'perceived' as a quality brand. For some other manufacturers (eg Skoda) the gap is the other way round.

Might I suggest a Skoda Octavia???

 

[SLinKyjoe]

Might I suggest a Skoda Octavia???

Fabulous Car. My parents have one. its a 1.9TD Auto Ambiente SE. it is really well built, well thought out. plenty of room, very fuel efficient and goes well enough.

mind you, the steering feel is nowhere near that of a Merc, nor is the ride quality. but for £12K brand new, fully kitted, it is unbelievable value for money.

would I have one?

Nope!!

 

[LAMAR]

Sure - but you can still get the parts. So why can't I get the bits for a component that costs 3 times as much and was still being manufactured 3 years ago.

Maybe but some things you just can't repair? How many Plasma televisions will be scrap if any thing goes wrong,and how much do they cost. Right or wrong but that just the way it is :| :|

 

[paulcallender]

jberks, I feel sorry for you, I understand your original point (they sell things and then it breaks down and it costs the earth to fix it). Unfortunately, it seems the way of the world these days, its true of cars nowadays, with notable exceptions (you'd probably have to say, Rolls-Royce, maybe Bentley). Its also true of many other things, clever marketeers have turned products which should have been long lasting into "consumer" items which fall apart or break down just outside the warranty period.

Computers are a good example, why do we all upgrade our PCs, upgrade our operating systems, go for the latest version of Office, etc etc when we don't really do much more than we did 10 years ago with them.

And furniture too. In days gone by, you bought a quality piece of furniture that lasted hundreds of years, etc etc.

 

[jberks]

Hi all,
I'm not looking for sympathy and I have actually found someone who has agreed to strip it down and if they can't fix it, no charge. If they can, I'm probably looking at £75-100 which I'm quite happpy with. Unfortunatley it means my car will be parked up for a week whilst my cluster darts around the country so I need to find a convenient time. It has taken me almost a year to find this person as there are plenty of people ready to reprogram, reduce the mileage etc, them but almost none outside the US (even there I've only found a couple) willing to get a screwdriver out. I believe this is primarily because VDO make it difficult. (why else - there is a big enough market!)

I understand and agree that things aren't what they used to be and MB especially. But when it comes down to it, I don't think the quality is a great deal worse than any other make and no matter what else I drive, how new, powerful or nice, I still prefer my Merc, it has something, - thats my choice and I have to take the rough with the smooth.

I also accept that some things can't be fixed. Taking the plasma example, if the screen fails, the cost of repair is greater than a new one so you buy a new one. However, if the on-off switch failed, you'd be unhappy replacing the whole set. If you also discovered that the on-off switches were a known weak spot, you'd be even more irritated if every TV repair man you contacted said they couldn't fix your set as parts were hard to come by. When my denon stereo blew up, I popped it into a local repairer and they put a new power supply in for £40. If I can get a stereo, TV or even my car radio fixed, then why not my cluster. After all, its only 3 actuators, 3 readouts and a circuit board, less complex than my stereo I suspect.

I have had the cluster as far apart as I personally dare, given my knowledge of the connectors and components. It would strip down further but I haven't the bottle to start tugging the remaining functional display connectors off. Today, the temp readout was almost perfect, last week all I had were 2 dots. So I am pretty certain its only a dodgy connection and could easily be repaired for substantially less than a new one.

But that's my point - Why is there no VDO approved repairer that I can take my cluster to, leave for a few days, pay £100 or so, and collect newly reconditioned. After all, it costs a lot more than a Audio 10, but I can go to a Bosch dealer (or whoever makes it) and have my Audio 10 fixed if it packed up. Take this further, and I'd be frightened to have an out of warranty motor with command. If the DVD drive jams, you're looking at £1500 to replace something with a £20 fault or else hawking it round looking for someone you may have never heard of, but who is willing to take a look. When the CD changer in the Wife's Audi packed up, it was sent away to Germany by the dealer to have the CDs extracted. This implies that there is a repair facility somewhere so if a CD changer, then why not a cluster.

As cars become more modular, there is a tendancy for the manufacturers to view more and more combined components as a single module. It's easier to manufacture that way. The problem is that you end up replacing a raft of perfectly good components because just one minor one has failed. I just consider that unreasonable and unfair. If MB could fix them and make a profit, then great, otherwise I feel they should encourage and support another organisation to do it on their behalf. I know I'm asking a multi national corporation to have a conscience and take an action that may be against their own profit margins and that I could be considered naive but please don't take from my comments that I actually expect anything to happen, I'm way too sceptical for that. But just because it won't doesn't mean that it shouldn't.

I guess a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If I didn't know how the cluster worked and hence how easy it would be to fix, I could be blissful in my ignorance.

 

[paulcallender]

But that's my point - Why is there no VDO approved repairer that I can take my cluster to, leave for a few days, pay £100 or so, and collect newly reconditioned.

I suspect there is, somewhere, but it might take some finding. I have a VDO speedo in an old Mercedes, its has a small fault on it. I contacted an instrument repair company, but they specialise in Smiths and other British instruments. They said they'd take a look at it - but I've not yet progressed this.

So, if you do come across a VDO repair specialist, let me know.......

 

[Bolide]

Specialist repairers

There's lots of good stuff in this thread. If parts are difficult & expensive to source (which they are) and having them work properly is essential to maintain the value of the car (which it is) then it would suggest there's a business opportunity for someone

Take a look at this site:

http://beckmanntechnologies.com


It worked for him. Whether it'd work in this country is another matter. The number of Mercedes (particularly high-spec ones) in the USA must be 100 times what it is in the UK. Plus they appear to have a higher disposable income than we do, a better tax regime for starting & running businesses and a more "can do" attitude than in the UK

It'd be a brave man (or, at least, one braver than me) who started a company repairing Mercedes electronics in the UK. But I don't doubt that the right person could make a go of it with the appropriate financial backing

Imagine it - guaranteed, exchange parts available by mail order. But contrast it with buying a second-hand replacement. The s/h item would always be cheaper, so where's the logic for repairing them?

I think it'd only be viable if Mercedes gave the enterprise their blessing by getting dealers to buy these remanufactured parts if Mercedes Germany no longer supplied that part new. There's the basis for a good business - but you'd probably have to be ISO 9600, and a PLC with knobs on for Daimler Chrysler to even speak to you!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk