Why does a remapped car need 60 miles to bed in?

[Psilonaught]

Had my car remapped three days again, and was told i would not be wowed until the car had done around 60 miles. This is because the ECU had been reset, and therefore the car needed time to learn the optimal setting again.

I was slightly dubious I have to say, but it seems to be the case, and the car is suddenly more explosive. The rolling road wasn't available at the time and he did an eco blend map so the bhp will be a "conservative" 275 (was a 235 version), but it is pretty blooming fast now. Interesting before the remap the turbo gave a very faint whistle when being pushed which is completely gone post remap.

Interestingly after I did the remap I noticed overtaking from 70 to pass someone felt more sluggish than before, but yesterday trying the same thing there was a slight delay and then the turbo kicked in and whoosh! I guess before the turbo wasn't kicking in.

Its all slightly subjective with maps I appreciate, but I "think" there has been a 60 mile change.

Anyone care to explain?

 

[bembo449]

its not bedding in per say , it allows the ECU to get used to the new paramitters and should allow the map to optimise performance / economy

 

[Scoob]

My understanding is that it's a combo of the ECU "learning" your driving characteristics as well as refining timing etc. for the fuel used.

From my old petrol (Impreza) mapping experience, the ECU's used would enter a "fast learn" mode after a reset - using the new "base line" from the mapping work. However this meant that the ECU would start at the "best" settings, and pull back the timing in increments if any det was detected - which it really shouldn't do if the mapping was done well. Conversely it could advance the timing slightly (smaller increment) if all was well & said det was just a one-off.

Other ECU's are TOTALLY governed by the map and cannot retard the timing at all to react to knock. In these maintaining the same fuel the car was mapped with is more important. My Impreza at the moment has one of these ECU's (Apexi FYI) and is working very well with no det/knock - this is due to the timing being biased towards "safe" despite running a 1.6 bar turbo.

Personally, after my car was mapped by GAD, it was a rocket right away. I've not noticed any improvement / obvious change in performance since the mapping. However, on the two times I've filled up with different fuel to what I had in the tank on the mapping day (V-Power) the car has felt different. "Normal" shell diesel made the car a little noisier and it'd lost its edge (both performance and economy) very slightly, whereas BP Ultimate seems to keep the performance and refined drive, but MPG is down.

I admit, I do tend to just potter a lot as traffic generally doesn't allow too much spirited driving. Plus the weather of late as seen me being extra careful due to the huge amount of surface water cos of the weather - I'm more than aware of the 550 ft.lbs my car has, so have what I think is a healthy paranoia lol, though the car hasn't done anything to worry me at all.

Scoob.

 

[Psilonaught]

Thanks that's interesting

I reset the trip computer today and did a conservative 60 mile trip and the mpg average was 37 which I am more than happy with considering the bmp

I'm taking the car back to the mappers now their rolling road is up and will ask them to dial in another 15bhp and see how the mpg fairs. 290 is about the max the 235 version will go without straining things

 

[tankman]

Yep had a v6 aero Saab remapped to 305 bhp,guy said it would get better after a few days.he was right.

 

[Daeths]

This is spooky. GAD did mine a week ago and due to hols only just hit about 80 miles on way to airport and the thing is noticeably different. When driven 'meanly' the mpg seems significantly better???

Overall very happy

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

Good evening,

There is an adaptation period as basically when the ECU has been re-flashed it has been virginised so all user input has to be re learnt.

Regards

GAD

 

[Daeths]

Anthony...you never told be to be gentle with my virgin

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

It's basic adaptations ie the vehicle will behave differently to different inputs such as throttle not gear selection.

With remapping like scoop stated the car has a new set of rules ie the remap so that's all it knows.

Adaptations amount to no more than 5% so you can be up or down ie pressures and torque in certain conditions but the overall power will be there from the word go...

Deaths your vehicle was learnt by Gary on the test drive

Keep calm we have it covered !!

Any other questions please let us know.

Should we create a remapping "sticky" ?

Many Thanks the GAD Tuning Support Team http://www.gadtuning.co.uk

 

[ianplymouth]

I had my Renault Grand Espace 2.0 Dci remapped as part of a DPF removal, the DPF was removed weeks before but the muppet that did it crashed the Ecu so I had to buy another one (new), drove it for a couple of days before the remap, it wasn't quite as good as the first time I drove it, but after the remap the guy said to take it for a spin, the transformation was instant, I only had the economy/torque remap it's running approximately 200hp

 

[Scoob]

Heh, my trip back from seeing the GAD guys was well over 60 miles, so I guess my car adapted while I did on the drive back

I will re-iterate that different fuel does make a noticable difference to the car though, subtle sure, but noticable. On the mapping day the car had just had a fresh tank of V-Power, which is in my view about as good at it gets for pump diesel. So, anything else - i.e. maybe with a lower calorific value, different / less additives etc. would make the ECU adapt potentially.

I've noticed this in various mapped cars, you run it on good fuel and it's great. You have to pop some "cheap" stuff in one time and performance degrades slightly - in my petrol cars we'd often see some slight additional knock activity which, if severe enough, the ECU would adjust for. When back on the good stuff, the car would more slowly regain any performance loss.

I admit, I've only personally worked on Petrol cars - mainly various Imprezas - I didn't tune my old Focus Diesel myself, so a diesel may react a little differently.

Regardless, a good map makes a good car better, I can't report any real down-side so far. While my Merc just is just mapped currently, I would like to make hardware changes too in the future, as I did with my Impreza and, to a lesser degree, the Focus, but that's a little ways off yet.

Shame the newer Merc ECU's can't be live mapped really, @ GAD: do you think this will ever be possible? I'm guessing not due to the anti-tune protection in the ECU's, though I wonder if this is hardware or software...maybe ECU jailbreaking will be a thing in the future

Scoob.

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

At the moment there is only 1 way data streaming so you can only read or write to the INT Flash. Now two way communication is was manly introduced on stand alone management and petrol vehicles from 97 to around 06 it has slowly been phased out.

With diesel vehicles its more torque request based on fuel and pressure so some math's is involved to estimate power then log data to see real time figures. As we may request 700 NM of torque but due to every vehicle being different you may only see 680NM even though its the same engine year ect. Every vehicle will have losses and every one will be different. This is the key reason we ONLY develop bespoke remaps and software.

 

[coventryslk]

I had my Renault Grand Espace 2.0 Dci remapped as part of a DPF removal, the DPF was removed weeks before but the muppet that did it crashed the Ecu so I had to buy another one (new), drove it for a couple of days before the remap, it wasn't quite as good as the first time I drove it, but after the remap the guy said to take it for a spin, the transformation was instant, I only had the economy/torque remap it's running approximately 200hp

That engine in the Espace is in the Megane 175 RenaultSport too. I think it was the fastest 2.0diesel around the nurburgring. I had the same engine in my old Laguna - it was very quick and more responsive than the merc cdi.

What can you get the DCI engine upto?

 

[ianplymouth]

That engine in the Espace is in the Megane 175 RenaultSport too. I think it was the fastest 2.0diesel around the nurburgring. I had the same engine in my old Laguna - it was very quick and more responsive than the merc cdi.

What can you get the DCI engine upto?

There was one company offering 225hp, but mine has done 138k, I didn't want to over stress the engine so just had the torque/economy option, wasn't really fussed about the reprogram, just wanted to get the DPF sorted, but they said a remap was in the price, with the extra torque and power and a heavy right foot its killing the front tyres :lol: