Brexit

[Frontstep]

The GMB union have published a survey saying 51% would vote against Brexit ITV reported, hmmm with my sceptic antennae twitching I looked it up ;
https://www.gmb.org.uk/ hmm not here

not in their "newsroom"

so is it a secret poll or just more drivel.

Maybe the "poll" was undertaken at a Lib Dums post election wake ?

The losing campaign continues.

 

[Headhurts]

Well I watched David Davis and Michael Barniers press conference and the feeble attempts to find rancour and disagreement between them by the mainly British media, watch it yourself then watch the reports of it you would think there had been another meeting.
The truth is both were on the same page Brexit means Brexit and the soft hard Brexit nonsense is exactly that.

There was no suggestion of "punishing" Britain just getting on with the massive task ahead.

Clearly trouble could be round the next corner but so far so good.

The mee-dia will no doubt look for trouble.

Listening to James Obrian today he is making out that the government is collapsing to their will and we are on the back foot.

Mind he is fairly left wing and a remainer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[davemercedes]

We started out on the back foot - the EU dictated the agenda, which I said they would three months ago.
The news feed from Bernier isn't all hearts and flowers (not surprising - he wants to hurt UK):

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...chel-Barnier-result-first-day-EU-negotiations
'No concessions!' Barnier says UK will have to pay 'substantial consequence' of leaving EU

 

[davemercedes]

Hmmm More mayhem for Brexit?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40339330
DUP warn Conservatives: Don't take us for granted

I think I read that the PM decided to proceed on the assumption the DUP would back them for Brexit against Labour/Corbyn anyway... Reading some of the views on the Tory/DUP deal I do wonder if the price for a deal will be too big.

 

[Yugguy]

May really did **** things up completely. How can we negotiate strongly now? Maybe she did it on purpose. She was a remainer after all.

 

[davemercedes]

May really did **** things up completely. How can we negotiate strongly now? Maybe she did it on purpose. She was a remainer after all.

But I've raised this before... she gave various speeches supporting remain during the referendum period - right down to nitty gritty reasons why (a couple of months ago I posted a page of quotes I found).

...Then she jumped in to get the "big" job and coined the "Brexit is Brexit" phrase along with a lot of other crap like "taking care of the Just About Managing" and "righting all injustices,.."

Later on she made a number of speeches where she preached the exact opposite - item by item.
- So my question was (and still is): Was she lying then or is she lying now?

Personally I don't think it makes any difference which way - I think she's just a self promoting liar who would sell us up the river any time. We've seen her personal feelings flowing over in the last week or so. Oh, err sorry, - no we haven't.

I still think she will be gone before the month is over. I doubt whether we have a strong volunteer to take the job as PM so despite what everyone said before I think we'll have another general election - sooner rather than later - and the Brexit discussions will just have to wait.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Apparently no deal with the DUP, so we are possibly now in political limbo. Never a good position to be negotiating our new freedom.....Maybe they will take pity on us.

 

[Frontstep]

But I've raised this before... she gave various speeches supporting remain during the referendum period - right down to nitty gritty reasons why (a couple of months ago I posted a page of quotes I found).

...Then she jumped in to get the "big" job and coined the "Brexit is Brexit" phrase along with a lot of other crap like "taking care of the Just About Managing" and "righting all injustices,.."

Later on she made a number of speeches where she preached the exact opposite - item by item.
- So my question was (and still is): Was she lying then or is she lying now?

Personally I don't think it makes any difference which way - I think she's just a self promoting liar who would sell us up the river any time. We've seen her personal feelings flowing over in the last week or so. Oh, err sorry, - no we haven't.

I still think she will be gone before the month is over. I doubt whether we have a strong volunteer to take the job as PM so despite what everyone said before I think we'll have another general election - sooner rather than later - and the Brexit discussions will just have to wait.

She just got a dose of democracy.
Politicians by the very nature of the democratic process cannot always be on the winning side of a vote so necessarily they facilitate the will of the people in their positions of power when their arguments do not win the day.
Thats why the house of commons is called a debating chamber.
Its all here;

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/role/customs/

It makes the system clearer than I can be bothered explaining.

 

[davemercedes]

[

And the truth is - as I always said - there never was and there is NO Brexit plan!
QUOTE="Frontstep, post: 1534390, member: 17732"]She just got a dose of democracy.
Politicians by the very nature of the democratic process cannot always be on the winning side of a vote so necessarily they facilitate the will of the people in their positions of power when their arguments do not win the day.
Thats why the house of commons is called a debating chamber.
Its all here;

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/role/customs/

It makes the system clearer than I can be bothered explaining.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on... don't hold up the "queen of the U-turn/sneak in what I want/liar" as a democratic PM!
- We've just had the "contrite" phase, now we're moving into the "humble" phase...

For starters, the dementia tax was added to the Conservative manifesto behind Cabinet ministers' backs - they found out the day before it was announced (there's enough posts on the web about that) and due to that and other things she made "executive decisions" about and thus she threw away the government's majority.

And the truth is - as I always said - (apart from no deal" there never was and there is NO Brexit plan!
Unsurprisingly, her personal rating went negative overnight and AFAIK it's still down there.

 

[Frontstep]

If you don't understand the democratic process why not read up on it ?

A politician that only does what they want to do is called a dictator.

You are confused about the so called dementia tax this explains its history;

https://fullfact.org/health/what-dementia-tax/

As to Brexit of course there is no deal we have only just started discussing it ?

As to "plan" what exactly do you think is happening with Michael Barnier.

They are working and it seems very amicably so far through the issues and despite the doom merchants best attempts talks have begun well.

As to Ms May there was a clear choice at the election,

J Corbyn.
T Farron.
T May.

I am not a fan but the alternatives were poor.

 

[davemercedes]

If you don't understand the democratic process why not read up on it ?
- I'm familiar with our version of democracy - I've been making the best of a lousy choice for over 50 years.

A politician that only does what they want to do is called a dictator.
- Or a liar
- Or an opportunist
- Or May

You are confused about the so called dementia tax this explains its history;
- I'm not in the slightest confused - and I have no wish to discus it's content - my comment concerned the way she sneaked it in to the manifesto which cost her the election.

https://fullfact.org/health/what-dementia-tax/

As to Brexit of course there is no deal we have only just started discussing it ?
- She set out the "No deal" concept before even a single discussion took place.
- That was bound to raise the hackles of the EU negotiator and he (Barnier) wants to hurt UK
- Day-1 Quote: Michel Barnier warns Britain faces Brexit 'consequences'
- End-of-day-1 "no concessions" quote

As to "plan" what exactly do you think is happening with Michael Barnier.
- There is no plan - the "don't show your hand" ploy was the best excuse ever.
- Davis is there to probe and seek out what we can get - which unfortunately will be what they choose to give us.
- Barnier is dictating the sequence of talks (as I said he would) and Davis has to put up with it.
- But he's being oh so pleasant about it (apart from promising No Concessions)!

They are working and it seems very amicably so far through the issues and despite the doom merchants best attempts talks have begun well.
- The above record doesn't look very amicable to me!

As to Ms May there was a clear choice at the election,

J Corbyn.
T Farron.
T May.

I am not a fan but the alternatives were poor.
- As above, I've been making the best of a lousy choice for over 50 years.
- It might be interesting to start another thread on future alternatives.
- I've said before: After voting Tory "forever", I looked at all the things they did over the last few years and I could not bring myself to vote for them again and I don't think I ever will. But I did not vote Labour either.

 

[davemercedes]

Hmmm More mayhem for Brexit?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40339330
DUP warn Conservatives: Don't take us for granted

I think I read that the PM decided to proceed on the assumption the DUP would back them for Brexit against Labour/Corbyn anyway... Reading some of the views on the Tory/DUP deal I do wonder if the price for a deal will be too big.

The cost is beginning to emerge - here's the first demand we're allowed to know about there's probably more under cover...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-40347632
DUP seeks £2bn deal to support Conservatives
No doubt Nicola Sturgeon will be demanding parity....

And it seems the public don't like the proposed deal very much...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/petition-tory-against-deal-dup-10597255
Petition against Tory-DUP deal gains HALF A MILLION signatures as backlash grows against Theresa May

- Democracy?
- Maybe, but at what price?

 

[Frontstep]

The UK is in an extraordinarily strong position Barnier has the German Industrialists, the French and Spanish farmers etc etc hanging on his every word millions of jobs rely on him making the UK happy.
The posturing is over and Barnier hasn't come out to fight he has like Davis come to do business.
Britain is a soft touch for overpriced imports.

While the handwringing remoaners wail in the real world grown ups are getting on with business.
The future is bright the future is Brexit an outstanding opportunity for the UK.

 

[davemercedes]

The UK is in an extraordinarily strong position Barnier has the German Industrialists, the French and Spanish farmers etc etc hanging on his every word millions of jobs rely on him making the UK happy.
The posturing is over and Barnier hasn't come out to fight he has like Davis come to do business.
Britain is a soft touch for overpriced imports.

While the handwringing remoaners wail in the real world grown ups are getting on with business.
The future is bright the future is Brexit an outstanding opportunity for the UK.

How dare you talk such rubbish when my country and countrymen are facing disaster.
Tell it to the 80,000 employees working on Euro Clearance transactions in London... just for starters...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4598794/Brussels-mounts-80bn-raid-City-London.html

- Sorry people, the future is very dark, the future is an outstanding lack of opportunity - all down to Brexquitters!
- When you get your UB40 you'll be able to claim basic unemployment benefit ... (if the Tories don't kill it off as a saving).
- Then right wingers will say you're "bone idle" etc - don't worry, just get over it - they said it would be "painful" sometimes...

 

[Frontstep]

How dare you talk such rubbish when my country and countrymen are facing disaster.
Tell it to the 80,000 employees working on Euro Clearance transactions in London... just for starters...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4598794/Brussels-mounts-80bn-raid-City-London.html

- Sorry people, the future is very dark, the future is an outstanding lack of opportunity - all down to Brexquitters!
- When you get your UB40 you'll be able to claim basic unemployment benefit ... (if the Tories don't kill it off as a saving).
- Then right wingers will say you're "bone idle" etc - don't worry, just get over it - they said it would be "painful" sometimes...

Blimey can you really not see the opportunities opening up ?

The example you give from the Daily Wail have you read it and understood it ?

Come out from under the duvet its a newspaper story littered with coulds and maybe's.

Its not so dark if you remove your Euro Blinkers, there is a very big wide world out their and our exports or sales are growing.

 

[triumphstag]

How dare you talk such rubbish when my country and countrymen are facing disaster.
Tell it to the 80,000 employees working on Euro Clearance transactions in London... just for starters...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4598794/Brussels-mounts-80bn-raid-City-London.html

- Sorry people, the future is very dark, the future is an outstanding lack of opportunity - all down to Brexquitters!
- When you get your UB40 you'll be able to claim basic unemployment benefit ... (if the Tories don't kill it off as a saving).
- Then right wingers will say you're "bone idle" etc - don't worry, just get over it - they said it would be "painful" sometimes...

Christ Dave, even for you that is melodramatic twaddle. Facing disaster my a*se.

Ifs buts and maybes. The disaster for this country would be if we stayed in a toxic, failing EU.

I very much doubt there will be significant job losses and any that there are will likely be replaced by other opportunities.

Reach for the stars and you may get to the moon, look for sh*t and you will find it.

It amazes me how the papers and population of this great country just want to do it down. We should be proud of what we can achieve as an independent nation and we should all reach in the same direction.

Even arch-remainer Ken Clarke has accepted Brexit today.

 

[Frontstep]

Exports of goods to non-EU countries leapt by 17.3 per cent to £43.8 billion between third and fourth quarter in 2016.

There was also an increase of 3.5 per cent for exports to the EU, to £38.3 billion for the same period, according to data from the Office for National Statistics.

Overall, goods exports volumes jumped by 7.1 per cent from -4.9 per cent in the third quarter of the year, while goods import volumes fell from 3.8 per cent to -0.4 per cent.

 

[Big Cheese]

Look at the mess the Greeks are in because of the E.U.
They are now Germany's bitch.
We are best out of it.

 

[LostKiwi]

Christ Dave, even for you that is melodramatic twaddle. Facing disaster my a*se.

Ifs buts and maybes. The disaster for this country would be if we stayed in a toxic, failing EU.

I very much doubt there will be significant job losses and any that there are will likely be replaced by other opportunities.

Reach for the stars and you may get to the moon, look for sh*t and you will find it.

It amazes me how the papers and population of this great country just want to do it down. We should be proud of what we can achieve as an independent nation and we should all reach in the same direction.

Even arch-remainer Ken Clarke has accepted Brexit today.

Our future prosperity is very much tied to those countries that are not part of the EU.
We cannot get a better deal with the EU than we have now. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to realise this. Therefore any improvement in our economy MUST come from outside the EU.
Why will we not get a better deal from the EU than we have now? Simple. They cannot offer one as it will negate the point of any country being a member. Why be a member of the EU if you can get a better deal by NOT being int eh EU?
The EU is the second largest global economy (behind the US) so what we lose there has to be made up elsewhere just to stay as we are.
I realise trade will continue with the EU whether we are in or out but its the terms of that trade that have to be worked out - i.e. what tariffs will our exports be subjected to by the EU and what impact will that have on trade volumes and values?
Looking at existing trade figures and saying how wonderful they are may be a false indicator - who knows how much of this is artificially generated trade as a result of getting in before Brexit hits?

I predicted a year ago that we would end up with a watered down version of what we already have... we will still accept immigration and we will still be bound by some EU laws. There have already been suggestions coming from the political hierarchy that this may well come to pass. Frankly I'd be surprised if it doesn't unless we end up with no agreement.

So if thats the case what will we have gained? We will have gained the ability to make SOME of our own laws, choose our own trading partners and make deals with them (almost all smaller economies than our own), perhaps have a limited say over EU immigration (which frankly the UK has never been good at controlling from outside the EU) and we will lose our vote in the EU.

Great result. [/sarcasm]

 

[JBell]

So this lays it bare what we contribute to the EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

So what will we do with the money? (sits back and lets everyone say NHS)