Brexit

[LostKiwi]

Wow. I'm so pleased we have such an amazing mindreader amongst us who knows exactly what everyone thinks of the EU.
Maybe we should get you onto the negotiating teams to spoil their tactics!

 

[Craiglxviii]

FS, the EU doesn't want to reform, doesn't see there is a need to. It exists in and of itself to provide an increase in order so anything trying to change that would result in s decrease in order which is a bad thing.

The more I see these workings and mindset of the EU laid bare, the more it concerns me I must say.

 

[JBell]

FS, the EU doesn't want to reform, doesn't see there is a need to. It exists in and of itself to provide an increase in order so anything trying to change that would result in s decrease in order which is a bad thing.

The more I see these workings and mindset of the EU laid bare, the more it concerns me I must say.

Negotiating BREXIT will be like 2 bulls fighting, the EU have proved they will only do everything on their terms and Mrs May wants to negotiate for a fair deal.

Junker and his chronies will not budge on what they want

 

[Craiglxviii]

Negotiating BREXIT will be like 2 bulls fighting, the EU have proved they will only do everything on their terms and Mrs May wants to negotiate for a fair deal.

Junker and his chronies will not budge on what they want

And that in turn makes our negotiations far easier. If we cannot make any move closer to the condition we want from the EU, we start talking to people who will allow us to move closer to that condition with them instead, and we f*** off Juncker.

It's odd in that this really does come back to the Liberalism essay. "Why would you want to negotiate, we are offering you a condition of more order!" from the EU's side, with "This is not in our national interests!" from ours with neither side being able to fundamentally understand the viewpoint of the other at leadership level.

 

[JBell]

And that in turn makes our negotiations far easier. If we cannot make any move closer to the condition we want from the EU, we start talking to people who will allow us to move closer to that condition with them instead, and we f*** off Juncker.

I don't think the EU have any intention of negotiating, they will try to use us as a tool to stop other countries leaving and make an example of us

 

[LostKiwi]

Mrs May wants to negotiate for a fair deal.

Junker and his chronies will not budge on what they want

Mrs May wants to have all the benefits of EU membership with none of the drawbacks - i.e. she wants to have her cake and eat it.
She'd like to be able to do what Neville Chamberlain failed to do - Get back off the plane waving a piece of paper and shouting "prosperity in our time".

The EU on the other hand don't want that. If someone can have all the benefits without being a member and abiding by the rules why bother going through all the work of joining and playing by the rules when you can have it all anyway?

I can absolutely see their point.

It brings to mind the old adage of marriage. A man marries a woman thinking she'll never change. A woman marries a man thinking she can change him. Both are destined to be disappointed.

 

[Xtractorfan]

The BBC is in full anti Brexit mode at the moment trying to make headlines over dinner discussions, soon Ms Millar will have her own programme.
I have no doubt there is some extreme posturing to protect the EU going on at the moment with French elections looming.
Why the EU couldn't see this as an opportunity to reform is beyond me.
The overwhelming majority of people are dissatisfied with the EU but have not had a mainstream politician to support. Clearly the divisive Farage, Pen,Wilders, Renzi, et al are not big vote winners.
Its like our looming General Election who in their right mind would vote for Corbyn, Farron etc.

Ditto... Who in their right mind would vote for May, Boreus, and the others, oh yes IDS and well the others...seriously, to think that they will take this country forward is laughable in itself. Brexit for them will be negotitaed on behalf of people like Philip Green and the Sports Direct guy. Just watch for the rise of more of these grab it all guys if MAYbe and her lot get in again. And be prepared to get your own personal helping of Sovereignty when we leave.

 

[JBell]

Mrs May wants to have all the benefits of EU membership with none of the drawbacks - i.e. she wants to have her cake and eat it.

Not sure she does, a Fair "non tariffed" trade deal and a guarantee for ex-pats each way would suffice, the rest is pointless

 

[LostKiwi]

Not sure she does, a Fair "non tariffed" trade deal and a guarantee for ex-pats each way would suffice, the rest is pointless

But that's the point. The only way currently to a non-tariffed trade deal is with open borders and adoption of at least a subset of EU laws and contributions to EU coffers. And that's what they cannot let her have as in EU terms its unconstitutional as it doesn't comply with the very Freedoms the EU is based on.

 

[JBell]

It doesn't comply with the very Freedoms the EU is based on.

Freedoms!!!!!!!

 

[drmw]

Surprised nobody has drawn attention to the odious Abbot today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39775693 . That's an aspirational Home Secretary?

 

[LostKiwi]

Freedoms!!!!!!!

Yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

The free movement of goods, services, capital and persons.

 

[M80]

As with many

But that's the point. The only way currently to a non-tariffed trade deal is with open borders and adoption of at least a subset of EU laws and contributions to EU coffers. And that's what they cannot let her have as in EU terms its unconstitutional as it doesn't comply with the very Freedoms the EU is based on.

As with so many things eu the design has changed, evolved if you prefer, to become unrecognisable to the original eu we joined.

We joined a trading organisation in 1973.
Free movement within the eu came about in 1992.

It's true we, as the UK, signed up to the Maastricht treaty. But one of the greatest issues for many of the population is that our leaders have allowed for so much corruption of the original design without referring back to us.
The, albeit slim, majority have decided that it all went too far.

Other countries seem to have a similar opinion that may yet be demonstrated in their own elections.

 

[Yugguy]

I'm not sure I could ever vote for a party that had Abbot as an MP because she's about as racist as they come, but it's never said. She finds me, and others like me, GUILTY of being white, like I should apologise for being a white male.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Surprised nobody has drawn attention to the odious Abbot today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39775693 . That's an aspirational Home Secretary?

I heard her this morning. Clinically insane with delusions of grandeur and even adequacy. She should be one of the first up against the wall...

 

[M80]

She's had the safe seat since 1987, surely Labour should give that advantage to some one more deserving.

I haven't met one person that can see any appeal in her.

 

[LostKiwi]

She's had the safe seat since 1987, surely Labour should give that advantage to some one more deserving.

I haven't met one person that can see any appeal in her.

Her electorate clearly like her (for some god unknown reason!)

 

[Craiglxviii]

Her electorate clearly like her (for some god unknown reason!)

Corbyn did too, he dipped his wick there in the late 70s...

Please, the mind bleach Alastair and don't delay!

 

[M80]

Her electorate clearly like her (for some god unknown reason!)

Corbyn did too, he dipped his wick there in the late 70s...

Please, the mind bleach Alastair and don't delay!

And I thought historically that Tories are the perverts.

BTW you should be banned for creating that image.

 

[Craiglxviii]

And I thought historically that Tories are the perverts.

BTW you should be banned for creating that image.

Blame Wikipedia. Normally I don't put much stock in it but they both admit to the unholy liaison.

Gag.