Brexit

[Yugguy]

Indeed, that's why I'm not a fan. Ukip did field a candidate in the last local midtern election for rugby, but he didn't get my vote because he didn't live here, he was just parachuted in. Pawsey didn't either, cos he's a bit of a bell end. I gave the labour ladya vote actually. But not this time, as i want a conservative majority.

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm voting anyone but Conservative. I don't want May to have carte blanche to do as she wants.

 

[davemercedes]

I'm voting anyone but Conservative. I don't want May to have carte blanche to do as she wants.

Ditto
- But problem is who else?
- I can't ever bring myself to vote labour so I may have to abstain which everyone says is a "waste" of my vote...

 

[Yugguy]

I'm voting anyone but Conservative. I don't want May to have carte blanche to do as she wants.

. But she really won't. There's an army of advisors and influencers behind her.

 

[davemercedes]

. But she really won't. There's an army of advisors and influencers behind her.

You mean - the army of "advisors and influencers" who advised her to ignore the regulation that the Tory party instigated in the interest of fairness and go for a snap election so that she will end up virtually unopposed (unless of course Corbyn undergoes a very unlikely miraculous change and the Lib Dems oink! gain a hundred seats or more!) I suppose it's only "fair" if you want it to be!

 

[Craiglxviii]

I'm voting anyone but Conservative. I don't want May to have carte blanche to do as she wants.

If you don't want her to have carte blanche, then vote Conservative and pressure your MP to keep the PM in line. That's how the system is supposed to work. Voting anything but Tory this time will just put the efficacy of the Brexit plan at more risk of interference from parties interested in states other than this one.

 

[Frontstep]

Teresa is just following the countries "orders" she isn't "doing as she wants" but what the country voted for.

In the forthcoming general election there will be losers who will have a government they don't want doing things they don't want many people have never had a government of their choice its the downside of democracy.

If you don't want Teresa vote for someone else.

If you don't want Brexit that is a bit more difficult the Lib Dems have accepted the referendum sort of but want essentially a chance to scupper any deal which could theoretically leave us outside the EU with no deal but they haven't thought that one through yet as the democrat bit is proving an inconvenience at the moment.

 

[M80]

Tomorrow hi-lights that we, the UK, should not be excluded from eu meetings.
Tomorrow the other members are holding a summit, and on the agenda is if Northern Ireland would automatically gain eu membersip as part of a united Ireland.

Ireland becoming united isn't my concern, the eu discussing such, and without our involvement is. The eu have no right to discuss this, it is plausibly going to interfere with the political process of a sovereign state if there is a decision either way. Actually I don't see how N.I. could be denied eu status as a district of 'Ireland', but eu could easily affect the outcome of a referendum.

We should insist on representation at all eu meetings, we are still a member and are paying for the privilege.

 

[LostKiwi]

Teresa is just following the countries "orders" she isn't "doing as she wants" but what the country voted for.

Did the country vote for Brexit at any cost? Or did the country vote for Brexit with trade deals and rights for UK citizens living in the EU? Since no one was asked what Brexit meant to them she can deliver her version of Brexit which may or may not be what the country wants. I would therefore prefer that parliament be involved as a sanity check on what Brexit means (if sanity can actually be used when discussing parliament and the government).

 

[Craiglxviii]

Did the country vote for Brexit at any cost? Or did the country vote for Brexit with trade deals and rights for UK citizens living in the EU? Since no one was asked what Brexit meant to them she can deliver her version of Brexit which may or may not be what the country wants. I would therefore prefer that parliament be involved as a sanity check on what Brexit means (if sanity can actually be used when discussing parliament and the government).

Good points but we need to be careful defining "at any cost". Remember the descriptions of Realism and Liberalism and how those apply to this situation.

We are (pretty much) a nation of Realists with a long history, embedded to the core, of being st the forefront of the world pretty much from the point "the world" was defined. That means that to this nation we want the best deal(s) that we can for this process, and that also means the best deal(s) for the country in the medium and long terms. The Parliamentary planning usually looks at 5, 20 and 50 year options so that all must be considered. As we are Realists we view deals as being potentially in both parties mutual interest, they are not zero sum games and thus for a deal to be preferable as an option it has to be at least better for us than no deal, on whatever subject it is.

The Euros on the other hand fundamentally desire a structured, ordered environment beyond all else as due to their geopolitical modelling/ world view (Liberalism) that is the route to prosperity and stability. No agreements are bad, any agreements must lead to an increase in order/ decrease in disorder so to the Euros any kind of deal at all (no matter how bad it is for either or both party) is better than no deal.

So right at the moment we have a fundamental metaphysical dichotomy between a country that wants specifically what is best for itself first, and a group of countries represented by a monolithic institution who desire order in all their dealings, and see nothing wrong with wishing to push us onto unfavourable deals- because to them, that outcome is better than no deal.

The press do not get any of this so far as I've seen yet.

 

[Frontstep]

We voted for "divorce" to leave the union and all that entails.
This hard/soft brexit nonsense is a figment of the remoaners imagination.
Yes I would like all the benefits and none of the costs but do not expect to get it.
I don't expect to leave a club and still get my members discount, invitation to the Christmas do or sleep with the captains wife.
I only expect to carry on not cutting my nose off to spite my face and expect "the club" to do the same.
I do not want Parliament having any any ability to do a Gina Millar.

 

[Xtractorfan]

We voted for "divorce" to leave the union and all that entails.
This hard/soft brexit nonsense is a figment of the remoaners imagination.
Yes I would like all the benefits and none of the costs but do not expect to get it.
I don't expect to leave a club and still get my members discount, invitation to the Christmas do or sleep with the captains wife.
I only expect to carry on not cutting my nose off to spite my face and expect "the club" to do the same.
I do not want Parliament having any any ability to do a Gina Millar.

So we now know what you don't want, any hints on what you would want. Its kinda what Brexit is all about.

 

[Frontstep]

Not to be a member of the EU couldn't make it any clearer.

Or think divorced, free to make decisions and alliances.

 

[Xtractorfan]

There, job done and sorted, why cant we go for that then.

 

[Frontstep]

I have no doubt there are many who will seek to complicate and frustrate the Brexit process.

Ms Millar the errhh self appointed guardian of parliamentary procedure is sharpening her nails for the election, who would have guessed she wants to frustrate the Brexit process, knock me down with a feather.

She hasn't finished costing us money yet and has thrown her hand in with the Dums and Richard Branson the man who doesn't even live here.
Isn't democracy great !

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Brexit negotiations will be tough for both sides no-one is doubting that, the EU Commission were bound to come out all guns blazing and appear dominant in negotiations as a tactic to stop fractures appearing in the common EU front of 27 states.

Merkel is already looking at a flanking move by courting the US with a transatlantic deal in an effort to keep German factories running should negotiations flounder just as we are turning to the Commonwealth and the Global economy to boost exports.

It's interesting to see that the Brits are currently spending less abroad and that the Spanish are whinging already......and so it begins

 

[mikestrivens]

Yes I've stopped buying French, Spanish and German products and am contemplating a Jaguar next. At least they are made in the UK even if they are owned by Tata.

 

[Yugguy]

Ah. We are off to menorca in august, 3 families. We may reverse the spending trend via consumption of Estrella lager and Xoriguer gin.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Yes I've stopped buying French, Spanish and German products and am contemplating a Jaguar next. At least they are made in the UK even if they are owned by Tata.

Well they're assembled in the U.K. The parts for them, including the steel coil, come from all over the world including Europe- like the exhaust and the entire cooling system for instance

 

[Frontstep]

The BBC is in full anti Brexit mode at the moment trying to make headlines over dinner discussions, soon Ms Millar will have her own programme.
I have no doubt there is some extreme posturing to protect the EU going on at the moment with French elections looming.
Why the EU couldn't see this as an opportunity to reform is beyond me.
The overwhelming majority of people are dissatisfied with the EU but have not had a mainstream politician to support. Clearly the divisive Farage, Pen,Wilders, Renzi, et al are not big vote winners.
Its like our looming General Election who in their right mind would vote for Corbyn, Farron etc.