1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Could use some Paint Machine Polishing expertise ...

Discussion in 'Bodywork, Tyres, Wheels & Trim' started by Submariner1, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    OK, I am toying with the idea of machine polishing ... only the absolute finest gloss polish type.

    From what I can gather. The ideal process is :-
    Compound polish with 3M Green polish and Green Pad
    Hi Gloss polish with 3M Yellow pad and Hi Gloss Polish
    And then optionally polish with Ultra High Gloss Polish i.e. with 3M Ultrafina SE Polish and their Blue ultra hi gloss foam Pad. (note this is normally reserved for black cars, its ideal for holograms and swirl reduction)

    I hate the idea of machine polishing, as I can’t get it out of my head, that polishing reduces clear coat thickness. Sure it will look fabulous and glossy and flat. But at the end if the day your “protective clear coat must be thinner”.
    If this info below is correct, then at best the clearcoat is only 1/10 of a mm :(:(
    E2C79962-E784-4A72-9A17-36A442B9ECBE.jpeg
    Hence my concerns.

    Idealy I would be looking for something that polished off any residual cement film left, if any is, and removed the new slight Micro marring, in terms of the above picture call them ‘mini swirl’ marks. And if that also reduced any deeper swirl marks great, but not an essential ... just a bonus.

    So the question is:-
    If I got a good Makita DA Polisher with soft start, and just used the absolute finest 3M Ultrafina Polish and Blue pad, nomally a 4th Stage reserved for Black cars.
    Am I safe the clearcoat reduction would be extremely minimal and that it should enhance the shine? ... OK I realise any proper swirl marks may not be removed. Dont care.
    I am not worried about that, as the paint inspector said the swirl marks on my car were very good i.e. very few.


    My definition of micro marring, is like a short, very shallow swirl; probably induced as I brushed off the cement dust (note done wet, soapy, under running water, frequently rinsing a make up brush every 3 strokes, i.e. the softest brush one could buy) or they were there before, due to normal washing after a jolly good power wash.
    Note if I get a microfibre cloth and load it with AG Super resin polish and work back and forwards 2” sq. at a time this Micro Marring disapears ... but hey no way Am I doing that on a huge S Class!

    Other questions
    1. How thick in mm? is the clear coat on an S Class? Is it any thicker than say a C Class?
    Imo S Classes look as though they have had more machine polishing to start with.
    2. How much in microns would be taken off using just the absolute finest machine polishing as above in mm.
    3. If you use a paint thickness meter, how does it distinguish between clear coat and base colour coat and undercoat?
    One place said:- read the thickness on the outside panel, then read under the bonnet, and deduct that .. and that difference is the clearcoat thickness. His logic was mfgs dont put much clearcoat under the bonnet to save money ...as this paint is not assaulted by the enviroment.
    4. If I just go the Ultrafina polish route; yes I appreciate I wont get the concours super flat, scratch free result one would following a 4 stage process.
    But would it remove the very light swirl marks, and maybe round over the edges of deeper swirl marks ... hopefully minimising them, and super gloss polish the unmarked clearcoat .... delivering overall a fundamentally shinier car?
    And if the finish is not as good as hoped, could it be improved by going over it again?


    Any ideas on this, or risks
    Like how difficult is it?

    Could one use this machine to spead out evenly AG SRP and Collinite ... in the future
    Just as a time saver?
     
  2. vtaylor78

    vtaylor78 Senior Member

    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    69
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Location:
    Northamptonshire.
    Your Mercedes:
    E350 CDI Coupe W207 2010
    I would be inclined to post these questions up on “Detailing World” a lot of knowledge on there regarding the polishing process.
     
    alexanderfoti likes this.
  3. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,972
    Likes Received:
    2,660
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    View attachment 44195 59F79D69-C68D-46EC-BDDD-88A3307748D7.jpeg 1683A28B-7719-4904-89FE-D538CBDEE540.jpeg Get a DA polisher and some red Megs compound, then some black Megs polish and you can get results like this from an 18yo 744 silver car.

    Be sure to clay bar thoroughly first!!! You’d be astonished what comes off the paint.
     
    Submariner1 and m2287 like this.
  4. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    Thanks I will have a look there, just trying to get a grip on what seems to be quite a scientific subject ... if you know what you are doing ...

    And an area, that is misunderstood by quite a lot of “car washers”, who aspire to being car detailers and paintwork refinishers and charging the big bucks.

    I can now ?<=now see why the top guys can charge anything from £300 to £700.
    Get it wrong, and you can irreversibly ruin the paintwork on an S Class, where a total respray is the only pucker resolution!
     
  5. DREAMER NO2

    DREAMER NO2 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,425
    Likes Received:
    240
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Location:
    Kidderminster in Worcestershire
    Your Mercedes:
    W124 2.6E M103
    This is a sepecial job and not for owners that dont know how to do it . You remove more than you need to, and it will need a top coat respray . Go to youtube and see videos of it being done .
     
  6. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    621
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Your Mercedes:
    2005 CL500.
    I would absolutely not be doing this.

    You are going to try and polish your whole car whilst learning how to at the same time.

    If you must...do your wife's car and make the inevitable mistakes on that first...then do your own (but you will still make mistakes).
     
  7. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,689
    Likes Received:
    3,885
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Location:
    Wirral
    Your Mercedes:
    W212 E63 ///AMG V8 Biturbo Volvo XC90 2018
    ^ what they said. Pay a detailer it will be less painful in the long run! It looks like you’ve come to that conclusion yourself anyway ?
     
    Submariner1 likes this.
  8. om613

    om613 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    232
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Location:
    london
    Your Mercedes:
    S202 C250TD, S123 240TD
    What you need is a £300 CLK...
     
  9. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,018
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    This!!!
     
  10. flowrider99

    flowrider99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    504
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Your Mercedes:
    SL500 (R230) / Audi S5
    I think the costs of a detailer DA polishing a car are rather exorbitant if the prices I have seen on line are correct, hence why paying £150 on a decent DA with pads and compound/polish seem attractive. But I would be worried that I would be doing more harm than good. I think you can get the same results when polishing your car by hand although it will be harder work and take longer. Do you know if the car has had a DA polish before? Do you know how thick the clearcoat is? These are questions you will need to know before you do anything.
     
  11. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    I was hoping the 3M Ultrafina finishing was so lightweight, it might be akin to hand polishing without the elbow grease. Thats the limit I would like to attempt.
    Plus if the DA could be used to spread out Collinite wax that would be a bonus.

    Yes I would try it on the A Class first.

    But I still wouldn't think of trying compound polishing the CL, or even using the finish Polish.
    I would leave that to a professional, or even rather forget it.
     
  12. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,972
    Likes Received:
    2,660
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    I compound polished my CL. I used a little DA, £30 from Costco. The results are as above. Finish was superb.
     
  13. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    621
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Your Mercedes:
    2005 CL500.
    What's the et on your back wheels?
     
  14. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    Looks very nice Craig
    Yep Im a fan of the claybar.
    Will double clay it this time.
    Do you have any idea hiw thick the clearcoat on a CL500 is?
    And how much is removed by that process?
     
  15. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,018
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    Just do it properly the first time!!!
     
    Craiglxviii likes this.
  16. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,972
    Likes Received:
    2,660
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    Nope, but I can tell you that MB paint is very thick and very hard in comparison to most other OEMs. At a guess I took a few microns off the clearcoat.
     
    Submariner1 likes this.
  17. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    My MB Body shop said on Mobilo Warranty claims they look for 80 to 130 microns total paint depth.
    Anything outside that they get iffy unless that area was previously repaired by an MB approved Bodyshop.

    Average split :
    D67B3463-3E86-467C-9DB4-0B96519516A5.jpeg

    He also said Using the finest finishing polish and comparable foam pad, and a good quality DA i.e. bearings running true etc. He felt any sensible person, who kept the polish topped up and moved the DA, set at low speed , would be hard pressed to damage CL clear coat paintwork ( apparently its scratch resistant and as Craig said jolly hard ).

    How much damage can a rotary polisher do ...


    I was surprised how little damage was done, and thats not a DA. :-/
    I was expecting to see primer?

    So circa 40 microns of clear coat, and he reckons you may lose a Micron or two.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  18. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    The big question is???

    If I choose a non-windy, nice and still day, rinse down the concrete drive to try and minimise anyndust blowing in, can you do this outside? (Driveway surrounded on 3 sides).

    Assuming I do it 300mm x 300mm sections at a time. I.e. wash whole car (after claying) and blow dry. Then wash down a selected panel say front wing and dry again
    And then wipe the target 300mm square, polish, and wipe off polish then move to next 300mm sq.

    To me thats about as much risk as when I polish it by hand, doing 2 whole panels (say front wing and a door) at a time?

    Or is this Absolutely an indoor garage, doors shut job.?

    Yes I could drive over to my sisters, 28 miles each way, to use her double garage. But Then it would require rewashing and claying the car?
    And it needs clearing out to get a car in first!
    Plus Taking my Pro heavy Karcher etc! Nightmare!
    So not ideal at all!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  19. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,018
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    Just pay someone to do it for you, in the time you have started numerous threads on the problems caused by the builders next door you could have had the car professionally detailed and looking better than ever
     
  20. OP
    Submariner1

    Submariner1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    569
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Windsor Berkshire
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500 2009 5.5
    Probably a whole lot smarter to wait 10 days until they have finished the job??
    ... for example today and tomorrow they are cutting these fake wood paneling, that is a cement based fibre board!
    Sure they now warn me, and I move the car as far away as possible! But in this lovely sunny dry weather it still blows a good 50 meters. ( so every evening I take a brisk drive to blow off 95% of the new dust ... just incase it rains / dews, if it rained or every other day I snow foam and Karcher rinse off the new dust.

    So having time ... to me its worth investigating if I could do it, plus I could also do some on the A class, and any future cars.
    Note for slightly less than the Pro detail cost, the builder could buy me
    - A top of the line Makita PO 6000C Polisher (rated the smoothest DA) with soft start. Allegedly blows the £480 Flex polisher out of the water.
    - A duo Pack of 3M polishing pads
    - A Litre of 3Ms finest polish
    - A 7L 0ppm Water filter.
    - Collinite and AG SRP.
    - And a decent paint depth meter.

    But it doesnt compensate me for my time.
    So imo its still something to consider.

    Bearing that in mind ... I assume YOU would just shell out £360 and have it made perfect ... only to get trashed the next day!

    I doubt I could claim against him again, and as he is now trying to do his best to minimise the dust / warning me, it would be morally wrong to try. And I also severely doubt he would pay or I would win a claim against him a second time.
    .. and even if one got lucky, that would mean further clear coat reduction ( imo a bad thing ).

    So I think in this case a little patience is a virtue!
     

Share This Page