Torque Converter - Gear Box Repairs

[panason1c]

Stephen720 , You might be interested in reading this thread from another forum regarding a similar problem to yours.......i think, after reading the very first post, you will agree that damage is most certainly not limited to the torque converter........

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30003&highlight=coolant+gearbox

 

[jonathanjhann]

what a crazy way to carry on!
no 1, if glycol has contaminated the trans oil, it has 100 percent circulated through all the components of the box, via the torque convertor.
Thats a fact.

The reason the transmission judders is the torque convertor lock up clutch slips, reulting in the judder.

On the side of mercedes, they have done the correct repair in replacing the torque convertor. The repair should be warranteed for 2 years n e way.

Drive the car and if you have future probs you would prob get a goodwill repair, they don't want to loose any customers. They removed the gearbox to replace the tc, so if found to be damaged they would of replaced that too!
:roll:

 

[television]

Stephen720 , You might be interested in reading this thread from another forum regarding a similar problem to yours.......i think, after reading, you will agree that damage is most certainly not limited to the torque converter........

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30003&highlight=coolant+gearbox

poor panasonic, I have just read the complete link that I also took part in.

Where as you agreed with my postings in that thread,you argued out of line with Glojo a most respected member on that forum all the way through the thread.

Glojo said exactly the same as me yet you argued with him right to the end. There is nothing in that thread that takes it further than the things that I have said here.

You try and say that I am just reading these things, were not you doing the same thing on that thread !!!!!!.

Re your comments that eric is a man on the floor, yes sure, through too much drink . Sadly eric has never heard of this fault, and therfore cannot comment with anything constructive anymore than you can. Also please find a thread here where eric has answered a gearbox correctly

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=27303

You cannot find fault with one thing that I have said here on this thread so please give it a rest. I do not care if you do not like me, thats your problem, not mine

I am happy in the way that I choose to answer any threads, and my little
links to make things easier.

 

[panason1c]

poor panasonic, I have just read the complete link that I also took part in.

Where as you agreed with my postings in that thread,you argued out of line with Glojo a most respected member on that forum all the way through the thread.

Glojo said exactly the same as me yet you argued with him right to the end. There is nothing in that thread that takes it further than the things that I have said here.

You try and say that I am just reading these things, were not you doing the same thing on that thread !!!!!!.

Re your comments that eric is a man on the floor, yes sure, through too much drink . Sadly eric has never heard of this fault, and therfore cannot comment with anything constructive anymore than you can. Also please find a thread here where eric has answered a gearbox correctly

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=27303

You cannot find fault with one thing that I have said here on this thread so please give it a rest. I do not care if you do not like me, thats your problem, not mine

I am happy in the way that I choose to answer any threads, and my little
links to make things easier.

Poor television, You set yourself up as some sort of Guru (in your own imagination)...Actually, all you do is sit at a computer 'looking things up'...you clearly have no hands on experience.

I'm not sure what Eric or psmart did to upset you when you insulted/dismissed their postings..maybe it was because, like me, they Dared to post an opinion contrary to your own.

Regarding the link you have just read....how do you respond now after stating there were no cases of transmission damage due to atf contamination?

Have a nice evening


ps..........In post 38 you said it was your last post on the subject....what happened?


"This my last reply on the matter, what a waste of time"
__________________
Malcolm

 

[television]

.

I'm not sure what Eric or psmart did to upset you when you insulted/dismissed their postings..maybe it was because they, like me, they Dared to post an opinion contrary to your own.

Psmart altered and corrected his posting on that thread that was based on imagination and not fact, eric has not got much of a clue on injection, so hardly worth discussing with him.

Rather than your silly arguments Do tell what have I said that is wrong on this thread or in the one in the link that you put up, do you have a drink problem too, so you have to hide in the Spanish mountains.

 

[panason1c]

do you have a drink problem too, so you have to hide in the Spanish mountains.

LOL........No, i dont have any such problem but i wish you luck in overcoming yours :-(


The Spanish mountains are beautiful.......please try not to be too envious.


ps.......It is a good sign that you admit to having a problem........be strong...

 

[television]

LOL........No, i dont have any such problem but i wish you luck in overcoming yours :-(


The Spanish mountains are beautiful.......please try not to be too envious.


ps.......It is a good sign that you admit to having a problem........be strong...

The first drink that I have this year was a ½ of shandy with lunch out last Tuedays

Each to his own, I have spectacular views out to sea across Lyme Bay in one direction and the Dorset hills in the other, all in one of the most sought after areas in the UK, yes I am lucky. I have also enjoyed living in Sweden overlooking lakes and the sea, but nothing is quite like home.

So sad that you do not like me, still I will not lose any sleep over it

 

[Stephen720]

Gentlemen

Thank you all for your comments.

Before I determine my next step, am I to presume full impartiality from the contributors, or not?

Stephen

 

[Ultymate]

Guys sorry to butt in on yet another heated thread but here's a link to a wikepedia on the workings of a torque converter the main thing I want to say here is tht the T/C is a sealed unit, not from the point of the oil it shares with the auto box but from a servicing point of view ie any damage caused by coolant damage like a siezed clutch can only be repaired by total replacement of the T/C as it cannot be opened up for maintainance whereas the transmission can be opened for maintainance. The gearbox can have it's sump pan removed and cleaned filter changed valve block cleaned etc. Another thing with the T/C is that most of it's welded together mild steel structure is far more prone to corrosion from coolant contamination. I don't know whether any of this helps understanding among you guys or not, anyways heres the link to the wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

 

[eric242340]

Guys sorry to butt in on yet another heated thread but here's a link to a wikepedia on the workings of a torque converter the main thing I want to say here is tht the T/C is a sealed unit, not from the point of the oil it shares with the auto box but from a servicing point of view ie any damage caused by coolant damage like a siezed clutch can only be repaired by total replacement of the T/C as it cannot be opened up for maintainance whereas the transmission can be opened for maintainance. The gearbox can have it's sump pan removed and cleaned filter changed valve block cleaned etc. Another thing with the T/C is that most of it's welded together mild steel structure is far more prone to corrosion from coolant contamination. I don't know whether any of this helps understanding among you guys or not, anyways heres the link to the wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

Thanks for that Ultymate, but the fact remains that water will enter the transmission. This is where the argument goes, will the tranny have future problems? If so, we are looking at an expensive repair and its out of warranty, so who pays? If Mercedes give a guarantee on the repair done or extend the transmission warranty (and I mean purly transmission warranty) then this should be acceptable. I think the extended warranty should be for one year minimum.

 

[eric242340]

what a crazy way to carry on!
no 1, if glycol has contaminated the trans oil, it has 100 percent circulated through all the components of the box, via the torque convertor.
Thats a fact.

The reason the transmission judders is the torque convertor lock up clutch slips, reulting in the judder.

On the side of mercedes, they have done the correct repair in replacing the torque convertor. The repair should be warranteed for 2 years n e way.

Drive the car and if you have future probs you would prob get a goodwill repair, they don't want to loose any customers. They removed the gearbox to replace the tc, so if found to be damaged they would of replaced that too!
:roll:

Hi Stephen, Now this is sensible advice. they should give you an extended warranty. If MB want to keep face, they will give you this much. Best of luck, Eric.

 

[wireman]

It is not damage persee but the fact that you can not empty the torque convertor completely, anything other than replacement might leave some small quantity of contamination in there.
A tiny little bit of water in an oil won't reduce the lubricity that much but may cause corrosion if its left there forever.
How can you be sure that there aint none left in the box?
I would not feel very comfortable with the whole thing.

 

[television]

It is not damage persee but the fact that you can not empty the torque convertor completely, anything other than replacement might leave some small quantity of contamination in there.
A tiny little bit of water in an oil won't reduce the lubricity that much but may cause corrosion if its left there forever.
How can you be sure that there aint none left in the box?
I would not feel very comfortable with the whole thing.

If you were to read the data sheet on the amount of water entering the gear box you would see that it is a microscopic amount. Once aain, this has been on going for some 4 years and yet not one thread or link to anyone who has had further problems around the world.

You do not throw an engine away after a head gasket fault, anymore than you throw the gerbox away for the same reason.

Once again it is only speculation on your behalf, and not fact

 

[Stephen720]

If you were to read the data sheet on the amount of water entering the gear box you would see that it is a microscopic amount. Once aain, this has been on going for some 4 years and yet not one thread or link to anyone who has had further problems around the world.

You do not throw an engine away after a head gasket fault, anymore than you throw the gerbox away for the same reason.

Once again it is only speculation on your behalf, and not fact


But the speculation & suspicion is generated by the fact that Mercedes fail to give me the facts themselves.

And your notion that there have been no further problems is clearly not true as the following posting demonstrates...............

My Dad had to go away today so left it with me to deal with any problems with his car. About 4.30 this afternoon I got a phone call from the service advisor to tell me that hopefully the car would be ready by tomorrow evening providing they can get the gearbox in time. He also wanted to know if I would authorise some additional work which included a new thrust arm and wheel bearing adjustments. I agreed as the costs were minimal but asked him what sort of costs were going to be incurred with the gearbox problems.
His reply restored my faith in the dealership and the brand immediately.

He said the new gearbox, torque convertor, gearbox radiator and a new SBC pump which was showing a fault would all be covered under their warranty. I was gobsmacked, I really didn't expect it at all even though I know a couple of the sales persons have been pestering service as they are trying to get me to buy a new car.
The cost in parts alone is £3,800 so with labour on top I would dread to think what the final bill would be

Malcolm - I want to believe what you say - But the fact that you seem to be a lone voice in this argument (which does not necessarily make you wrong) and the fact that you seem the most intransient in your argument and wanted to close this down from the very first posting has simply compounded my suspicions.

Malcolm wrote - You are OK on this one with the rest of the box, it was only the torque converter that suffered any damage with the Valeo issue.

What exactly is your angle on all this? Are you towing the MB line?

 

[Blobcat]

Stephen720

Have you read this thread Post 25 in particular.
Looks like a similar fault and whilst that vehicle was not in warranty the MB dealer advised that the gearbox was shot and would require replacement. It does appear there is one rule for within warranty and one rule for when warranty has expired.

 

[BlackC55]

I can say that I about to replace a torque converter, radiator etc for the droning problem etc. But the gearbox has been damaged too. Luckily only the valve body has been affected. (I think and hope)

It failed the glycol test at a dealer and my customer is saving up to pay me to do the repair.

I will not know for sure until its all flushed out and put back together if its all cured.

 

[television]

If you were to read the data sheet on the amount of water entering the gear box you would see that it is a microscopic amount. Once aain, this has been on going for some 4 years and yet not one thread or link to anyone who has had further problems around the world.

You do not throw an engine away after a head gasket fault, anymore than you throw the gerbox away for the same reason.

Once again it is only speculation on your behalf, and not fact


But the speculation & suspicion is generated by the fact that Mercedes fail to give me the facts themselves.

And your notion that there have been no further problems is clearly not true as the following posting demonstrates...............

My Dad had to go away today so left it with me to deal with any problems with his car. About 4.30 this afternoon I got a phone call from the service advisor to tell me that hopefully the car would be ready by tomorrow evening providing they can get the gearbox in time. He also wanted to know if I would authorise some additional work which included a new thrust arm and wheel bearing adjustments. I agreed as the costs were minimal but asked him what sort of costs were going to be incurred with the gearbox problems.
His reply restored my faith in the dealership and the brand immediately.

He said the new gearbox, torque convertor, gearbox radiator and a new SBC pump which was showing a fault would all be covered under their warranty. I was gobsmacked, I really didn't expect it at all even though I know a couple of the sales persons have been pestering service as they are trying to get me to buy a new car.
The cost in parts alone is £3,800 so with labour on top I would dread to think what the final bill would be

Malcolm - I want to believe what you say - But the fact that you seem to be a lone voice in this argument (which does not necessarily make you wrong) and the fact that you seem the most intransient in your argument and wanted to close this down from the very first posting has simply compounded my suspicions.

Malcolm wrote - You are OK on this one with the rest of the box, it was only the torque converter that suffered any damage with the Valeo issue.

What exactly is your angle on all this? Are you towing the MB line?

No, I am not, and I am against the principles that MB work by, all on the grounds that this fault is not of your own making, you could not have caused the fault or make it happen.

I mentioned earlier of similar issues where some of the faults were down to faulty manufacturing. Reading the small print on these issues, it would appear that it is a case of get some money if you can out of the customer, and if they complain the offer a discount or do it free.

Lets go back to your case. There are test to determine how much glycol was in your gearbox, and the repairs were carried out according to that info.

Much speculation has been put into your fault by other members, speculation is OK but of no use to you.

We do not have a specialist gearbox re builder on the forum, and I do not know of a forum that has one. At the same time I have never heard of any re occuring problems with or after the fault that you had, and the problem is 4 years old now.

From an engineering point, I do have a pretty good back ground, and I would never give false information to any member, most of my answers do include any safety tips that should be observed when doing any work, both for the good of the car and the person doing the work.

From a technical angle, I had not gone to sleep on this, or your problem, that is to say that these gear boxes run at the boiling point of water, any water in the gearbox would have evaporated in no time at all.


http://www.fedauto.co.uk/

This link is the only one of its kind, if you feel uneasy contact them and ask their view. they are good people and do good work.

To sum up, yes I have got to know some MB service outlets very well, the standards to which they work to are very high. If they say that they have done what was necessary then I would have left it at that.

When I gave my first brief answer, I did not know that I was going to be challenged with speculation. I can handle fact and reason but not "it must have done xxx damage" there no answer for that.

I do hope that this makes you feel easier, and I can only apologize for where this thread got out of hand

 

[BlackC55]

"From a technical angle, I had not gone to sleep on this, or your problem, that is to say that these gear boxes run at the boiling point of water, any water in the gearbox would have evaporated in no time at all."

But its not water is it. Its coolant

 

[television]

"From a technical angle, I had not gone to sleep on this, or your problem, that is to say that these gear boxes run at the boiling point of water, any water in the gearbox would have evaporated in no time at all."

But its not water is it. Its coolant

Has anyone tried boiling coolant.

Rather than speculate, when you were with MB did you have any further problems with this fault when the torque converter was replaced through the min amount of glycol

 

[Blobcat]

Has anyone tried boiling coolant.

One property of radiator additive is to raise the boiling point of the coolant so as to carry more heat away from the engine.