What could stop a rear wheel bolt going in properly on C216

[flowrider]

How do you know the hubs were perfect? That wheel looks like it had an issue before it was painted.

 

[television]

How do you know the hubs were perfect? That wheel looks like it had an issue before it was painted.

I would not like much to be done on this.

 

[flowrider]

I would not like much to be done on this.

You could be right, i would be a little concerned about trying to repair the bolt hole. Having said that a wheel held on securely with 4 bolts will be fine.

 

[yorkshire1]

look at the stud hole in hub at issue for damage grease another stud and try it in the hole keeping it square, agree with umble it doesnt look like crossthreading to me either but a stud is easily misaligned with over zealous use of a windy gun.the paint in the wheel hole could have put the stud out of line.....and remember, always grease your studs!!!(wink)

 

[hotrodder]

...Having said that a wheel held on securely with 4 bolts will be fine.

Until it fails an MOT because a wheel bolt is missing (section 4.2 of the MOT manual)

 

[flowrider]

Until it fails an MOT because a wheel bolt is missing (section 4.2 of the MOT manual)

You are of course correct, i should have added that the 5th bolt will still need to be in place just that it doesn't have to be perfect. If it was me i would tap the hub, buy a new wheel bolt and a new wheel.

 

[bembo449]

what sort of monkeys have they got working at Mercedes , if they cannot simply remount an alloy ?

 

[LostKiwi]

what sort of monkeys have they got working at Mercedes , if they cannot simply remount an alloy ?

It wasn't MB...

 

[Xtractorfan]

1148 words to get to a crossed thread...! This has to be a new record!

Wrong again Craig.... just about a dozen lines down in the op's first post you will find this
3. They stripped a thread and it won't go in all the way ... my nightmare.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Seems a lot of wordage here over a minor glitch!

The bolt is not bad. The 'thread' marks in the wheel are on one side of the hole only, and occured when the gun monkey carelessly tried to fire the bolt in cross-threaded and scored the soft alloy of the wheel.

If it was me, I'd grind a slight taper on the damaged bolt (a la taper tap), make sure it was square to the hole, and work it in carefully - back and forth - with a ring spanner (no windygun). That will dress the threads in the hub (notice - the bolt only went in cross-threaded a short way initially, so most of the hub threads will be undamaged), then I'd chuck the bolt and use a new one. Job done.


Umble

 

[Submariner1]

what sort of monkeys have they got working at Mercedes , if they cannot simply remount an alloy ?

It wasnt Mercedes, but the wheel refurbisher!
And precisely, I have never cross theaded a wheel lug. How hard is it to put a bolt in straight, rotate it anticlockwise a bit till it goes click, rotate back a bit more and then go clockwise, feel its running smoothly and then screw it in.

 

[Submariner1]

Nothing wrong with that at all!!!



Why would you need his permission?? The first thing you should have done is to remove the wheel and investigate i.e take it off and screw a bolt into the hole only using your fingers, see how far it goes in, you can compare by putting bolts into any other hole using the same process!!!!

In case it went legal, just belt and braces its a smart thing to do.

 

[Naraic]

look at the stud hole in hub at issue for damage grease another stud and try it in the hole keeping it square, agree with umble it doesnt look like crossthreading to me either but a stud is easily misaligned with over zealous use of a windy gun.the paint in the wheel hole could have put the stud out of line.....and remember, always grease your studs!!!(wink)

Probably a joke, but just in case...NEVER grease your wheel studs or bolts.

 

[Submariner1]

How do you know the hubs were perfect? That wheel looks like it had an issue before it was painted.

1. It had just had a B service
2. I took off all the wheels to clean up and repaint the hubs, coppa slipped the threads, and they all ran on by hand perfectly right up until they were seated.
3. They had no problems putting the donor wheels on, or taking them off by hand at my request. When they fitted the repainted ones they really had to work at screwing in a few bolts. One technician even gave up saying the bolts wont go in!

What issue?
The only issue was as reported on my B service advisory ... very slightly buckled 3 wheels.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Wrong again Craig.... just about a dozen lines down in the op's first post you will find this
3. They stripped a thread and it won't go in all the way ... my nightmare.

A suggestion, not the acceptance of a conclusion. Wrong again.

 

[KennyN]

It sounds like there has been a build-up of paint that has hardened in the wheel bolt bore , tech has tried to fit the bolt and the build-up has meant that the bolt didn`t go in square. These mounting holes should have been cleaned prior to fitting the wheels or masked to prevent any paint getting on the ,already tight , bores.

It is wrong but mistakes do happen especially if it has been an inexperienced fitter doing the work.

Two options :

1 - It gets , legal, messy and drawn out over a lengthy period causing you all-sorts of financial and mental grief.

2 - You remove the car to a trustworthy mechanic who will do do what has been suggested in some of the previous posts and you can put it behind you and move on. If you want then you can try and recoup your outlay via the small claims court but at least your car is back on the road.

You clearly are not comfortable with the place you have used so even if you let them "repair" the damage then you will still doubt their workmanship.

Kenny

 

[Submariner1]

Checked all the other wheels.
All the other hubs are Ok.
One other wheel has the same overfilled hole, but its not so bad the bolt wont go in, but the face side is is full of paint so the bolt ocillates as it locks up. And the not round hole does bind a little on the bolt.

Not enough to bother about , but as this is the wheel with the flawed paintwork on one spoke, and the scratched recess, and as I have to go and get the other wheel done. Might as well get both done.
If it was just this I would lesve it ... but having a front and a rear done if there is a slight paint colour variation then put pting them on the same side would sort that.

So summary is
One damaged hub thread, possibly mended
Two flawed paint jobs ... thankfully on both wheels they scratched fitting.

 

[Submariner1]

Seems a lot of wordage here over a minor glitch!

The bolt is not bad. The 'thread' marks in the wheel are on one side of the hole only, and occured when the gun monkey carelessly tried to fire the bolt in cross-threaded and scored the soft alloy of the wheel.

If it was me, I'd grind a slight taper on the damaged bolt (a la taper tap), make sure it was square to the hole, and work it in carefully - back and forth - with a ring spanner (no windygun). That will dress the threads in the hub (notice - the bolt only went in cross-threaded a short way initially, so most of the hub threads will be undamaged), then I'd chuck the bolt and use a new one. Job done.


Umble

I did try one of the old bolts with a damaged cap, but with a perfect thread. It like the damaged bolt went in about 3 rotations and then stopped.
I know the bolt was put in at an angle, I think the taper of the bolt, and I guess the looser external threads allowed them to put the bolt in cross threaded. Then I saw them tighten it to 150 Nm. And I think it then chewed up the hub threads about 3 or 4 rotations in. So now a clean threaded bolt wont screw in.

I will leave it to Mercedes, if they can tap it, and they feel its OK to do that. Then thats fine by me, or if they dont think its right to tap it, safety/longevity issues etc. Then they can replace the hub plate (fortuneately its not the whole hub) and I will give the wheel refurbisher the bill.
Er thats what he has business / public liability insurance for.

If his workmen cant even put a wheel on, then there is no way I would let them undo my EPB hub.

 

[LostKiwi]

That hub mating face on the wheel needs to be perfectly flat to get the wheel to mate correctly against the hub.
When power or braking forces are transmitted they do so via friction of the hub and wheel face (and not as many believe via the bolts). Think of it as a clutch where the bolts are the clamps. If the faces are not flat then you reduce the contact patch and increase the loads on the bolts as if there is any movement the bolts become subject to shear and tensile forces.

From that pic there is a build up of paint on the face near the hole that needs to be removed.

 

[Submariner1]

It sounds like there has been a build-up of paint that has hardened in the wheel bolt bore , tech has tried to fit the bolt and the build-up has meant that the bolt didn`t go in square. These mounting holes should have been cleaned prior to fitting the wheels or masked to prevent any paint getting on the ,already tight , bores.

It is wrong but mistakes do happen especially if it has been an inexperienced fitter doing the work.

Two options :

1 - It gets , legal, messy and drawn out over a lengthy period causing you all-sorts of financial and mental grief.

2 - You remove the car to a trustworthy mechanic who will do do what has been suggested in some of the previous posts and you can put it behind you and move on. If you want then you can try and recoup your outlay via the small claims court but at least your car is back on the road.

You clearly are not comfortable with the place you have used so even if you let them "repair" the damage then you will still doubt their workmanship.

Kenny

Pretty much sums it up.
Not being hard, just pragmatic.
The ONLY benefit of being old, is you have been there before. :-/
If I let them fix it, sorry "bodge it", what happens if it locks up to 150Nm this time, but the next time I have a puncture and it wont lock up, i.e. Completely strips and just rotates. No way would they help me in 6 months time.

I am sure a lot of folks he will think I am a pedantic prat.
But one day I will upgrade this car. And all the work I am doing to it, abc flushes, new struts, flushed diff oil, prematurely replaced batteries etc. is to get it in tip top condition.
I want to be able to say 'hand on heart' to any future purchaser, "everything has been maintained perfectly as per Mercedes stipulations, and to the best of my knowledge its truly good to go" and the work has been done by a good main dealer or an extremely good approved mercedes specialist like Welwyn Merx or MBS.

I think that reassurance will allow me to get top money ... well at least from an intelligent buyer.
One of these cars in tip top condition is seriously worth a LOT more than one where all the maintenance has been skipped or bodged.
Believe me, sorting out problems, can rack up the £000s in a heart beat. Any doubts about that ... just ask Craig how much he has spent get that garage queen sorted. I'd guess £3000 more who knows. And the time and hassle.
I just want a "sorted" car .... turn the key with confidence! Starts first time and drives perfectly ... enjoy!

Plus you are right if they fixed it, would I be happy they fixed it properly? No!
Without seeing it they say tapping it will be OK ... that indicates "a bodge it at any price" philosophy.

I would have been more open to them sorting it. If they had said, "lets have a good look at it, if its very minor thread damage, then we will tap it. And give you an undertaking if it fails we will fix it. But If its more serious thread damage then we will buy a genuine MB hub plate and fix it."

Yes, the legal and messy route, may be an issue for some. But luckily I have a huge policy.
And its very simple ... just let them get on with it. Actually the hard part is trying to do the nice thing, and get them to fix the issue cheaply without legal fees.