Vegetable Oil

[300TDT]

Silversaloon, can you please tell me which O rings perish? I've heard of this problem before but have not encountered it yet (I've done about 20,000 miles on varying %ges of new veg oil) and would like to have some spares on hand if it arises.
Thanks

 

[FIBAMAN]

My old E300 TD

Used 50 / 50 new veg oil when the ambiient reached double digits 90 /1 when below.
No probs, chip shop smell at standstill is not offensive but can be devastating if on a diet.

 

[Slurms McKenzie]

I've used 50/50 in mine in the summer, though haven't gone any lower than 30 veg/70 derv in winter. This last winter gone, I didn't add any veg when it was really cold. It works fine with no modifications.

IMO it wouldn't be a good idea to sling in 100% veg without some prior preparation. I'd check firstly that your engine is in good tune i.e. easy to start, no glow plugs out, recently checked/replaced injectors.

The big problem is overcoming veg oil's viscosity; it puts more strain on the lift pump and injection pump and the whole fuel system. (Think drinking a milkshake through a straw vs water.) On that front, it's pretty important that all lines and unions are tight and o-rings seated. It's probably prudent to change them anyway with your car coming up to 18 years old. If you've got an air leak (which would cause poor starting/running anyway) get that dealt with first. Iirc MB o-rings are Viton (veg oil friendly), but I could be wrong. Online o-ring suppliers sell Viton ones if not. Fwiw, I would also change the fuel lines in favour of larger diameter ones so there's less strain on the pump.

There is so much info out there on the subject, and there are so many differing opinions on what modifications you'd need to do that I think a lot will depend on your personal circumstances. Is the car a keeper or something you could run into the ground? Without a doubt, I'm sure you could go 100% veg now without modification for many thousands of miles.

I wouldn't want to take the risk personally, and I'm happy with my oil experiment. If I was to go for a 100% svo/wvo conversion, (and I looked long and hard into it) this German company: http://www.elsbett.com has a single tank conversion kit. Note that even in winter, they recommend using derv to thin the oil.

Veg oils' viscosity will also scrape 18 years of gunk and accumulated deposits through its journey to your injection pump. At some point you will have to change/clean the fuel strainer that resides at the bottom of your fuel tank. It's an easy task on the estate, more involved on the saloon. It's imperative that fuel filter changes are carried-out more regularly also.

The Elsbett kit is merely a suggestion, and I know opinions vary on how much of these conversion kits is snake oil and how much based on an empirical basis.

All the best no matter which way option you take.

 

[4.6 gt]

ive been using it at 50/50 all winter.Bio diesel place has just put his prices up though in line with Gordon. 85p/lt .Might start using 70/30 now it's getting a bit milder.Using about 100 lts a month means i save a whopping £25/ month.

 

[spock500]

I have only covered 20k in the W210 using roughly a 50/50 mix.

Sunflower oil defiantly adds more power overall combined with a more responsive peddle.

Anyone else clocking up the miles?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Yup, I am on this

Not so many miles yet, only about 100 miles, but its a never ending project!

More info here

 

[spock500]

That is totally cool!

Just by chance, I saw your thread on the veggie forum as I don't visit too often these days.

The most important part I have learned along the way is oil. Yup, sounds simple but for some reason once folks talk about veg oil, the different types really don't feature. This is in sharp contrast to say bio diesel where you have the varying grades B100 ect.

The best to use I have found is sunflower oil, this has an equal (or pretty close) calorific value to diesel. In addition it's gelling point is also markedly lower too, alleviating the need for pipe heating.

Soya oil is the one to avoid at all costs, this in genetically fiddled with and very sticky both for the human and mechanical heart (take note chippies)

Try also to advance the injection timing, plant oils detonate later in the cycle so advancing may well assist with smoother running.

I have only had a quick scan of your blog but will read in more detail later.

Keep us posted,

 

[alexanderfoti]

Heh thanks!

I was thinking about that today funnily enough. I was wondering to myself, what the best type of veg oil would be to use.

as I will be on a twin tank, the injection timing one is a bit annoying as its a mixture.

The most annoying thing at the moment is sourcing oil! the 2-3 places I called locally have a deal where the oil supplier also collects their old oil. So no go for me there. When I have a chance, im going to pop in on the fly and see what I can find.

 

[spock500]

The used oil market is very completive with all of the big boys competing for supplies.

Sunflower oil from Tesco's which has been on offer for ages, works out at just less than £1 per litre.

I think we have one filling station here in the UK but still some way to catch up with Germany http://www.folkecenter.net/gb/rd/transport/fuels-and-supply/plant_oil/ppo_germany/

I am going to try upping the % on mine to perhaps 70% plant oil/diesel, will post back findings.

 

[yorkshire1]

mileage

mines done 10.000 miles this summer? on 90% used oil/10% petrol and a dash of cetane improver, doing average 40mpg , only problem is the saddle tank issue on motorway journeys itll run out at 1/2 full on guage, got to drill the tank and equalize them and run bigger bore feed pipework to to give the lift pump an easier time plan on running 20-50% petrol/diesel with the oil as winter draws nearer and depending on ambient temps

Will monitor compressions for possible carbon issues and may consider water injection at some point if the petrol inclusion isnt keeping the rings clean enough, only other issue is fuel filter composition, over the years ive noticed with some the veg oil tends to soften the glue bonding the paper pleats to the canister

 

[spock500]

yorkshire1, I had problems too with the now infamous 'saddle tanks', posted a fair bit of info on the veggie forum including my Heath Robinson 'balancing pipe'

We never did get to the bottom of whether the tanks would still balance if you went over the top of the prop shaft instead of underneath?

 

[yorkshire1]

balance

Yes Ive read those posts thanks,and was wondering if I could run larger bore hoses tapped into the bottom of the tanks forwards along either side then cross over somewhere further forwards, then T off the loop for my pump feed, but I dont know whether the return feed would still cause issues for balance as the tanks get low or if the hose bore would be large enough to stop it drawing air through one hose or other,

 

[spock500]

We had a hunch that you could go over the top with a balancing pipe which would equal both tanks.

Might be worth trying with a couple of five litre bottles connected at the bottom.

You could also do as you suggest and run two pipes to the front, this was something I considered too but ended up with a single 15mm pipe instead.

 

[spock500]

Having clocked up a few miles on Tesco's finest, I wanted to update on my findings.

There's no doubt the engine is running quieter but is also returning improved fuel economy. At a guess I would say around 10% better but this is only a guess.

Looking at Sun flower oil, it has a slightly lower calorific value than diesel.

http://www.jatrofuels.com/170-0-Calorific+Values.html

Jatropha oil seems to be the one to use, which compares favourable to diesel.

Mindful of the colder weather, I have left a jar of oil outside, but as yet it remains very liquid.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Im still having issues locating vegetable oil, have no idea where to buy it below £1

 

[spock500]

Have a look for online supplies? there used to be 2/3 selling new oil in 1000 IBC's which included delivery.

Are you using svo or wvo?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Well, i'm trying to use WVO, but everywhere locally to me has an arrangement with a supplier, so that they also collect their waste oil.

The issue is I dont use a huge amount, the diesel bike only has a 6 liter tank, but buying it new and mixing with petrol kind of defeats the point.

I have had a look online, but I only need 20 liters at once

Any idea how to get WVO, without annoying chippies for it constantly, they all tell me the same thing.

 

[spock500]

It's very competitive with the biodiesel industry taking the lions share.

Have you tried other catering establishments, like schools, care homes, that sort of thing.

I tried it for a while but the novelty soon wore off , too messy and the quality is variable unless making bio.

Would it not be easier just to use svo with those small quantities? The upside is you probably won't have to mix it with anything especially with a twin tank set-up.

Good site for bits 'n' bobs, but also sell uvo by the looks of it too -

http://www.oilybits.com/1000-litre-ibc-of-uco-used-cooking-oil/prod_902.html

 

[alexanderfoti]

I was thinking that its probably best to go down the SVO route for the ease of it, but unless I can find it less than 70p a liter, then its not worth it.

Unfortunately, my engine hates running on straight veg oil, I think its too thick for the tiny fuel pump, so I have to mix it with 10% petrol, It would be easier with svo. Where do you get svo?

 

[spock500]

Tesco's deliver it

They have a long standing promo of two 5 litre tubs for £10, you can also add in online discounts and points too.