190 Diesel , Trouble Starting

[rio678]

Hi everyone

i am having some problems with my 190 Diesel, it is having problems starting when cold, it will take a good few times before it finally kicks in with the usual lot of smoke when just started, but when it is warm it is a bit better, not excellent but much better? What do you think it is? , i can sort of smell around the engine bay Very very slightly, a bit of diesel, is that normal?

 

[Hibbo]

Are the glowplugs working?
Can you see any air bubbles in the translucent fuel pipes around the IP and filter?

 

[rio678]

I think they are? how can i check? :S

 

[Hibbo]

Does the light come on when you turn the key to the run position (before you start it) and go out after 5secs or so?

Get a voltmeter and check there is 12v getting to the glowplugs when you turn the key.

 

[rio678]

yep light comes on and goes out, even quicker when warm.

 

[chelsw6]

Best way to tell if its the glow plugs is turn on the ignition wait till the glow plug light goes out, then turn the key back to off, then back on so the glow plugs get heated up twice, then try starting it,

 

[Hibbo]

Check there is 12v at the GPs when the light is on.

 

[rio678]

Will do yep, if there isn't, what could be at fault??

 

[Hibbo]

The fuse in the relay.

 

[rio678]

I have today found that the pipe from injector 1 is leaking, this is a main pipe that feeds to all the injectors, could this be a problem??

 

[Hibbo]

I have today found that the pipe from injector 1 is leaking, this is a main pipe that feeds to all the injectors, could this be a problem??

By main pipe I assume you mean the rubber pipe, not the metal High-Pressure line?

Each injector is fed by its own HP line. The rubber pipes are spill-off lines, and return any un-injected fuel to the tank. This could well be causing air to get into the fuel system (how? I'm not quite sure how air gets from the leak-off lines into the fuel supply lines, but the spill pipes have caused many problems with air ingress), this would make it difficult to start.

Did you check for power to the glowplugs?

 

[rio678]

No voltage to the glow plugs at all when warmish, havn't checked from stone cold. I replaced all the rubber pipes as they were not good, it actually seems to start a little bit better and power is more there???!! but should there be some reading to the glowplugs when warm? it wasn't hot though, when it has sort of warmed up the light hardly stays on for even a split second.

 

[Hibbo]

Check 'em from stone cold and let us know......

 

[rio678]

How many miles would you say glow plugs would last? i am pointing to them as the main problem as i can hear the relay click, although i'm sure this doesn't mean anything, i will check first thing tomorrow though to see if there is 12V, would semi-warm still show a voltage though? as it is still not really easy to start when it's warm. Sometimes i have had to spray in some easy-start in the air intake to get it started

 

[rio678]

Checked this morning, there is definite voltage from cold.

 

[eric242340]

Checked this morning, there is definite voltage from cold.

You may have one or more glow plugs defective. They are getting the voltage, albeit the plug or plugs are not working. Simple test for this is to remove the glow plugs, when the engine is cold. Turn the ignition to second position and with the glow plugs connected to their wiring ground them and see if they get warm.

 

[Hibbo]

You may have one or more glow plugs defective. They are getting the voltage, albeit the plug or plugs are not working. Simple test for this is to remove the glow plugs, when the engine is cold. Turn the ignition to second position and with the glow plugs connected to their wiring ground them and see if they get warm.

Does the car start OK when the engine is HOT?

You may have a plug or two out, but the relay normally notices this and doesn't put the light on till after the engine is started to let you know.

Eric's method is tremendous, I'll expand on it a give a step by step guide:

1) Remove airbox.
2) Remove intake manifold.
3) Disconnect power leads to each plug (8mm nut)
4) Remove glowplugs (12mm socket) Access may be tight so remove injection pump (ensuring the timing locking device is fitted) and oil filter housing as necessary.
5) If, as is common, one or more plugs sheer; a) remove cylinder head and deliver to local machine shop, b) replace engine, or c) scrap car.
6) Reattach glowplug supply cables to each loose glowplug.
7) Have someone turn the ignition to position 2.
8 ) Quickly (before glow period finishes!) touch each glowplug to a good earth.
9) If the 600c heat generated by a functional GP instantly removes all the skin from your fingers, you have a good plug.
9a) If you still have skin and nerve endings on your fingers, unfortunately you have a faulty GP.
10) Repeat from step 7 for the other 4 plugs. (If you ensure you ONLY use 2 fingers per plug, you should then be able to check all 5)
11) Refit good plugs.
12) Replace faulty plugs.
13) Refit oil filter housing and IP
14) Set IP timing.
15) Replace intake manifold.
16) Replace airbox.
17) Get your assistant to turn the key to position 3.
18 ) Get your assistant to drive you to casualty.


Unfortunately, this method is unsuited to my engine (owing to an adverse cylinder to pairs of fingers ratio) so I have developed my own, somewhat controversial method of checking GPs:

1) Remove GP supply plug from GP relay (large 5pin plug).
2) Check the resistance of each pin to earth. Around 1 ohm is what a good plug should read, any more and it is shot.

 

[rio678]

will that effect starting from warm?

 

[rio678]

he he he, ummm i don't think i will try that :S, It had refurbished cylinder head a 20,000 miles due to blown piston ring's , the glow plugs i don't think they were changed and it's now done 144K, i would probably say they are shot, but the light goes out so quickly when warm, could this be the relay?? i think i will replace the glow plugs out of precaution

 

[Hibbo]

If you get it going, drive 20 miles, turn it off for one minute and start it again, how does it do?