190e stalling - technical advice

[Flappy]

Hello,

Thanks for an excellent wbsite, it's very informative.

I've recently purchased a 1991 190E Auto from a garage, and it has a problem.

When I drive it for a while, after the engine warms up it stalls. It does it when I take my foot off the gas and brake to a halt. It starts up again imediately and doesn't do it again for the rest of the journey.

Odd eh? - Any ideas???

Also, my temp gauge runs about 90, then goes up to 110 in traffic, or when moving slowly. I've not seen it go above 110. Is this normal?? Could the two be linked????

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks

 

[Neil Eglintine]

190e stalling

One of the advantages of buying from a garage is that you take the car back if it doesn't work properly. Don't lose sight of this in your quest to understand the problem.

 

[David Halsey]

190e stalling

1. I would suspect the fuel pump relay, but this does need to be checked
2. The temp is fine and where it should be
:COOL:

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

Thanks for the advice,
I've had a word with the garage who say there was oil contaminating the throttle body and on the butterfly valve, which they've cleaned off - does this sound right???
I'm relieved that the temp is OK, as it takes another potential line of investigation away.
I had heard something about a hall effect speed sensor on the back of the speedo causing this problem - any ideas????
Here's  Hopin'

 

[Matt Crooke]

190e stalling

Dear Flappy!

Ive got the same model Merc as you, only a 1987 model, the temp sounds fine to me, you didnt mention if it goes any higher than 110, if not then theres nothing to worry about. When i first got mine, i thought i would try this out, and i just managed to switch the engine off before it it 120!, turns out it was the switch that activates the electromagnetic cooling fan was at fault. £17.50 later and the problem is solved. They do say that the switch should activate at 100 degress, but i presume once a switch gets older it may take slightly longer to work.

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

Thanks Matt,

I'm not so worried about the temp thing now, as I've not seen it go above 110.

This stalling thing is still a major gripe though.
I got the car back from the garage with the butterfly valve all cleaned, but it has made no difference.

The fault is present every time I drive the car, and I don't seem to be any closer to fixing it.

I've refined my understanding of the problem, as it seems to happen after a run without braking, (like motorway) then when you slow down the engine dies.
It has done it more than once in the same journey.

With respect to Neil's comment, the garage reckon that its a minor fault, and so won't take the car back unless I go through the courts etc. In their defence they do appear to be being helpful, although I am concerned that this could just go on and on.....

Can anybody offer any good advice??????

 

[Neil Eglintine]

190e stalling

Mmm....

I didn't really mean that you should return the car for a refund, but that they should sort out the problems for you.

If the engine is dying when you lift of the accelerator, which I think is what you are saying, then this sounds like a fuel problem. That's about as far as my knowledge goes. My 190E has never had this problem!

 

[Matt Crooke]

190e stalling

Could be something to do with the idle speed controller. Andy or David Halsey are the most likely to know on here. but there is a switch or valve that controls the engine at low revs/idle, this may have an intermittent fault on it. The problem you are describing sounds the same as i had on a previous car i had, it turned out to be that very thing. Might be worth a look at.

Secret Tip...get a Haynes Manual....they are worth their weight in gold!.

Good luck.

cheers

 

[Matt Crooke]

190e stalling

Following on from the above, i remembered another thing, get hold of a can of carb/injection cleaner. With the top of the air filter removed and the engine running spray some into the intake intermittently. Its best to have someone with you revving the car slightly as when you spray the cleaner in, the car will go to stall, when it does start to stall, stop spraying until the engine settles down again, then carry on. Do this a few times, as you may have something as simple as a bit of grit or dirt somewhere it shouldnt be down there causing a blockage. It might be worth a try!.

cheers

 

[Andy]

190e stalling

Hi,

One of the first things I would say. That it is perfectly right to expect that a used vehicle purchased in good faith, will carry out the use it was intended with out it causing problems. So I do not except the reply of the garage that the fault is minor. Whether minor or not it should  be sorted.

As for the fault itself. Its hard to isolate. All the components on the injection system or the KE part of the system need to be checked for correct resistance and voltages. Similar to what I have mentioned on this forum with regard to 300E stalling. The same is required here. There are a number of the components which could cause this so I will not surmise what it could be. A thorough check of the KE system is required.

You don't mention how many miles has the vehicle covered.

Was the oil actually on the throttle flap, or on the air flow meter (big round flap under air filter)?

Sorry I can't be more specific.

Regards
Andy@ www.mercedesservicing.com

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

Its done about 120k I don't know quite where the oil was, although the garage mentioned that it was on the butterfly valve. Not sure about much else, as I didn't actually see what they did.

Thanks, Matt, I've got a Haynes manual, and its a pretty good one for this model.

Sorry, Neil, maybe that explains why they weren't too happy when I suggested a refund - ho hum.

The garage have got the car back again at the moment, so I'll let you know what happens.

Any more advice is welcome - I'm intrigued by this Hall effect speed sensor - Is this valid for my car, or is it just models with cruise control (which mine doesn't have)????

 

[Neil Eglintine]

190e stalling

Just to expand on the refund point, and sorry if this is boring.

If the goods that you purchase are manifestly duff, then you do have a right to reject the goods and are entitled to a refund. Motor traders are well known for resisting this approach, but there have ben court cases setlled in the favour of the customer. For this to be successful, you do have to have serious problems and you have to act quick. Serious and quick are both relative, and undefined in the relevant law.

Otherwise, the supplier has the right to repair, replace or refund. As Andy points out, the supplier does not have the right to fob you off.

The last time I bought a problematic car (a Merc as it happens!) a sharp letter from my solicitor pointing out the right of rejection resulted in a proper set of repairs.

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

I thought I'd give you the latest, just in case anyone else gets the same problem. The garage have replaced the fuel pump relay and the fuel filter, I have replaced the OVP relay, its had its idle control tweaked, and its been on some kind of diagnostic rig. It's still not fixed. The garage have offered to take the car back and give me the full price against another car, which is not ideal, but it seems to be the only way I'm going to get a functional car without going to court. I'd still like to fix the merc, but am running out of ideas. Does anyone know if either the air flow sensor potentiometer, or the electro hydraulic actuator might be the source of the problem. If so how could I test them? Fingers crossed...

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

...I forgot to mention... the garage also checked that the fuel tank is venting properly.

(Edited by Flappy at 8:03 am on Nov. 14, 2001)

 

[Flappy]

190e stalling

Hello again,
Gosh, this has got busy since I was last here, maybe its something to do with the weather.
Anyway, I'm fed up with the garage giving me the brush off so I'm rolling up my sleeves this weekend to try and sort it out myself The problem is still the same, basically it stalls when I slow down. Can anyone point me at somewhere to start. I stillsuspect the airflow sensor pot, but how can I test it? Is it a good starting point? Any other ideas???? All advice gratefully received.
Thanks
Flappy

 

[demetris]

190e stalling

Yep have got a very similar issue with my 190e 1987 auto. Ironincally enough it started after I had an oil change. I Had the carb stripped clearned,the float checked, diphragm checked,the fuel filters changed but yet after I idle for about 3-4 minutes the revs drop and the car stalls, the only way to stop it from happening is to put the car in N when stopped and the revs get back to "normal" and then drive along as normal, I have been to 3 mechanincs and none can find the solution and considering the value of the car I don't fancy spending anymore money i.e taking it to a mercedes garage as it is not worth it, but if anyone does know  of a fix I would be mighty grateful.

 

[Matt Crooke]

190e stalling

im not sure of the name of the part, but there must be some sort of device that controls the idle speed of the engine when it is put into D or R and you are stationary, as without this device, the engine would simply stall under the increased load. it sounds something like that to me.

 

[dave elcome]

190e stalling

Matt

The gadget your are thinking of is called an "Idle up device" i'm not sure if Mercedes use them, but they are used widely on Japanese vehicles, especially Auto's.

 

[Matt Crooke]

190e stalling

Dave,

that sounds like the very thing, i wonder what mercs use to stop the engine stalling when its put in gear then?

 

[mathewtaylor]

C220 CDI -Keeps stalling when accelerating - please help !

He has a Mercedes C220 CDI, 1999.
If he puts the accelerator pedal down hard, the car will stall and the ECU light comes on.
He has to restart the ignition to restart the car.
He has had the car checked and tuned and they cannot find a fault, although they can see that the car has been stalling.
If you have any ideas then please let me know !
Thanks
Mathew