190E steering wandering

[DAD190E1990]

My '89 190E feels like it wanders without much help from the steering wheel. I checked the tyre pressures and don't know where to go from there. I'm not familiar with the 190 yet, it's my first mercedes so any help would be great. Also the steering 'Growls' sometimes in car parks when driving slow and steering from lock to lock, not all the time but it has done it recently. The steering does not centre itself when you drive forwards, you physically have to set it straight again or you head for the kerb, lets say after completing a 3 point turn. If you put your foot down, you would expect the wheel to spin through your hands and centre itself and rather frighteningly, this one does not. The steering doesn't feel all that heavy but it seems to almost 'Stick' and the sometime feels liek it's wandering.
Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Bumper]

check the fluid that could cause your groan, siezed ball joints ot a siezed nuckle joint on the steering column.

also check the fan belt is tight and not slipping

 

[turnipsock]

Steering damper sounds like the obvious first guess for the wandering.

Steering knuckle joints would be the cause of stiff steering.

 

[mike65]

I'd ditto all the above, I have replaced everything bar one knuckle joint at this stage.

The wandering is caused by the damper not damping and the lack of self centre will almost certainly be a partialy seized knuckle joint. The power
steering helps to disguise just how stiff the action might have become.

Mike.

 

[Bolide]

(I was born under a) wandering three-pointed star

Or the steering box has been over-tightened, or it has a bent damper shaft on one of the suspension legs

Most likely balljoints though

I always suspect those diagonal tie rod / track rods at the rear when cars start wandering about on their own. What do Mercedes call them?


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[television]

My '89 190E feels like it wanders without much help from the steering wheel. I checked the tyre pressures and don't know where to go from there. I'm not familiar with the 190 yet, it's my first mercedes so any help would be great. Also the steering 'Growls' sometimes in car parks when driving slow and steering from lock to lock, not all the time but it has done it recently. The steering does not centre itself when you drive forwards, you physically have to set it straight again or you head for the kerb, lets say after completing a 3 point turn. If you put your foot down, you would expect the wheel to spin through your hands and centre itself and rather frighteningly, this one does not. The steering doesn't feel all that heavy but it seems to almost 'Stick' and the sometime feels liek it's wandering.
Any help is much appreciated.

Most cars with power steering will growl or hiss on full lock, its only the releif valve within the power steering pump.
As for not self centering after a three point turn, with more and more anti steering wheel shock features built in, cars just do not self center these days, any self centering that is built in, only operates on the center part of the seering and not from full lock to lock.
I cant recall any of my last 20 cars doing that.

Malcolm

 

[anyweb]

my 190d (sold thank goodness) used to wander on its own as well until i did a completely unorthodox but cheap temporary fix,

i found that the rubber bushes that are supposed to 'support' both the front suspension arms (located in the engine bay) were completely worn out and cracked. so much so that if you pushed either front wheel you could see the whole assembly move,

i got myself a large tube of silicon black glue (like the stuff you use in bathrooms but black in color) and squirted large amounts of the black silicon into both the right and left front suspension arms area, once dry, the wobble completely disappeared.

of course that is a non-technical description of my issue, but it resolved it for me, the correct way of doing the above would have been to remove the worn out rubber bushes and replace them with new ones, although i assume that would mean disassembly of the suspension system and that was definelty not on my list

cheers
anyweb

 

[DAD190E1990]

Thanks for all the insight. I am having a service done in January and i will have the mech cast an eye over it. I have searched the service / work file and can't find much more than the odd track rod arm and a steering damper replaced about 2 years ago so i will start at the column and work out from there. I have a feeling the bushes might be old and until the steering itself has been looked at i can't be sure about anything but i have a lot of leads to look through now and as ever, i appreciate ALL the help given here,

Many thanks,
Phil

 

[andy_k]

Or the steering box has been over-tightened, or it has a bent damper shaft on one of the suspension legs

Most likely balljoints though

I always suspect those diagonal tie rod / track rods at the rear when cars start wandering about on their own. What do Mercedes call them?


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

do you mean these little XXXXXXXs ?

http://www.benzworld.org/gallery/pics/11_1189915_213200443907PM.jpg

called strut links /radius arms or something depending who you talk to the top one was upgraded by MB a few years back and some dealers welded plates onto the lower ones to stiffen them up

Andy

 

[Bolide]

Strut links

If they are in front of the rear axle and are on the diagonal, that's the little chap. As they wear the car wanders about

You can test it on most cars by going on & off full throttle at about 50 mph with your hands off the steering wheel (on a private test track, obviously) and see if the car steers one way then the other


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[kth286]

DAD190E1990

I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND you get your car to a dealer immediately, or you may not see Christmas.

Your lower steering knuckle ball joint is probably seized up on either one side or both.

This component is critical to the whole suspension support and it can snap off at the lower wishbone and cause total suspension collapse.

At 60 mph going around a bend you would not want that to happen !!!!!!!

It is likely that the rubber dust boots have cracked and let in dirt and moisture and they have rusted.

A quick and inexpensive way to determine, is to book the car into a main dealer for an MOT.

Do it now.

Regards

 

[turnipsock]

an easier way is to pop the track rod ends and feel if the knuckle joints are stiff.

 

[DAD190E1990]

Thanks to kth286,

I appreciate the concerned post. My car passed it's MOT about 3 weeks ago and i have checked the rubber, not cracked or split. However this does not mean the knuckle is ok, either one. I am still getting used to this car, it's my first Mercedes and i realise it will feel different. The wandering has caused me concern but i am being critical about a new car to me. If it was all over the road, ok, i would not drive it. I am very safety concious though and i am wanting to learn all about this car. It doesn't do lots of miles right now and it's having the big service done in January, we have a BMW to fall back on for now so i'm going to look into this steering knuckle AND the rear radius arms / bushes etc.

I am sure of some parts i can get but if anyone knows where would sell me a new knuckle ball joint, that would be great.

Again, kth thanks. I heed the advice and wherever possible i will use the BMW until this is sorted out. There is someone i know who will know enough to inspect the steering and tell me the state of the knuckle or indeed any part of it so i will give them a call.

I am having a fabulous time with this car, after just 3 weeks of ownership. The 'Glide' of driving it is a wonderful feeling and it's a shame for it to feel 'Un-Sure-Footed'. I think i'll replace the tyres as well, they have about 8-12 months left and are not recent fitment.

Drive safe everyone.

 

[turnipsock]

Dad,

the knuckle joints from the dealer were surprisingly cheap, I think they were about £12 each.

With a decent balljoint spilter, it's a two minute job to detatch the track rods. You can then easily check the knuckle joints for stiffness.


When I first noticed my steering stiff, I loosend the steering box thinking this may be the problem. After I replaced the joints the steering wasn't stiff anymore but was now wandering all over the place. Once I adjusted the steering box again, the steering was very good.

 

[duncane]

Just to add to Turnipsock's post, If everything goes well, splitting the ball joints is a 2 minute job, if not it can turn into a pain in the a**e.

When attempting to split the balljoints, loosen the nut, but leave it on the thread, so that if you cannot get the joint apart you can always tighten it up and drive it safely to a professional to sort out.

I had a bit of nightmare a couple of months ago when replacing a track rod, where the balljoint wouldn't come apart, even after trying various options e.g. balljoint splitter, heat, big hammer. But on admitting defeat, i couldn't get the nut back on because the splitter tool had knackered the thread.


Duncan

 

[tom7035]

Hi DAD190E1990.
Nice to see an ex REME 'bod' like myself on the forum.
If you intend doing the suspension/steering balljoints yourself, here is a good article with pics. Although it is a W124, your W201 uses the same system.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W124BallJoint

Cheers, Tom.

 

[turnipsock]

Just for the record:

If you need a socket to push in the new joint...it's a 46mm.

When popping the track rods, I usually leave the nut on. however there is a danger that you won't be able to remove it once the thing has popped as the ball will just turn in the socket.

The tool that the guy uses to split the track rod isn't very good. The one I have has a screw that presses it out, you can probably get a hydralic version which would be the bee's knees.

Track rod ends can be difficult to remove if they have been overtightened when they were installed.