2015 LWB Sprinter with rumbling vibration from underside 50mph+

[Celticbaz]

Hi folks,

Hopefully somebody might have encountered similar to this and if a resolution can be found it might help others facing the same symptoms too in the future. I have attempted a few things to resolve the problem without success so far.

My van, a 2015 LWB Sprinter (3.5T 313 CDI, RWD B906, 2143cc 95KW 129HP OM 651.940;OM 651.955.) firstly started to develop an audible squeak when rolling/moving back or forward at very low speed. A local garage here in Ayrshire diagnosed the universal joints as needing done after greasing failed to help. This work was carried out but after receiving the van back a new problem arose (a rumbling vibration when driving - only beginning once reaching approx 50mph and above). Steering wheel does not shake. The noise is very apparent when in the cab and drowns out the engine noise.

The same local garage that diagnosed the universal joints (who had then actually outsourced that work without me knowing) sent the van back to the company who did the universal joints (EURO driveshafts & hydraulics). They were adamant the fault was nothing to do with the work they carried out and went so far as to replace the entire prop shaft and balanced it. They then sent the van back but the fault was still there. The local garage and EURO driveshafts were stumped as to what the issue was and I was also £1200 out of pocket, without a van for a couple of weeks and no further forward for the pleasure.

I collected the van and decided to bite the bullet and take it to the so called experts (a Mercedes dealership nearest to me - Western Commercial in Glasgow). They had the van 2 hours and diagnosed two buckled back wheels and two new tyres as being the fault. I paid the labour of £226 pleased that I had some answers. I asked them for a quote and date to fix this - which I am still waiting for to this day. I eventually took the van to Kwik-Fit and bought two good tyres and wheels at a cost of £500 odd quid. Unfortunately after collection once I hit the motorway it was apparent that the problem was still present.

Back to square one I booked the van back into Western Commercial to have it re-investigated whilst the van was having recall work done. Their technicians spent another 1.5 hours on it, taking it to 3.5hrs total by this point and then informed that there was no labour charge as a gesture of goodwill, however they had not located the reason for the fault but in order to continue diagnosing, they would need to begin charging labour from that point onwards (meanwhile they were aware and acknowledged that their earlier diagnosis was wrong, my time had been wasted and had cost me approaching £800 at this point).

I politely declined the offer and collected the van from them as I would basically be paying more the longer it took them to diagnose the real fault i.e paying for their incompetency. Whilst I totally appreciate that no two vehicles are the same and this might be a really tricky/unique fault to diagnose, these are the experts who you are meant to trust.

I have no idea where to turn next, hence the post. If anybody could help, I would be eternally grateful and happy to repay them in some way.

I have a video where the fault can be heard, although road noise may interfere. Don't seem to be able to attach it here though.

Thanks in advance
Barry

 

[Blobcat]

You can upload your video to YouTube and link it back here

Driveshafts appear quite common on sprinters

 

[ajlsl600]

Sound silly but are the yokes inline.

 

[Rockron]

Depending on whether the it was just the UJs that were renewed here's a few guesses might be worthwhile investigating;

Have you checked for any movement or freeplay in the replaced U/Js levering with a flat bladed screwdriver to check. Presumably the needle rollers and spiders etc.were actually renewed along with all circlips (unless staked type). Is the propshaft a 2 piece item with centre carrier bearing, has this been securely fastened in place & correct orientation, is the rubber bushing in good nick? Likewise flange bolts secure and all present. I do know it takes a fair bit of care to balance propshafts, perhaps yours was the last one of the day before knocking off!
Did the A team! at Western Com. take the van for a diagnosis test run, could be clutch pilot bearing or gearbox related.

 

[Kev555]

What your describing sounds like an out of balance driveshaft

 

[Celticbaz]

Depending on whether the it was just the UJs that were renewed here's a few guesses might be worthwhile investigating;

Have you checked for any movement or freeplay in the replaced U/Js levering with a flat bladed screwdriver to check. Presumably the needle rollers and spiders etc.were actually renewed along with all circlips (unless staked type). Is the propshaft a 2 piece item with centre carrier bearing, has this been securely fastened in place & correct orientation, is the rubber bushing in good nick? Likewise flange bolts secure and all present. I do know it takes a fair bit of care to balance propshafts, perhaps yours was the last one of the day before knocking off!
Did the A team! at Western Com. take the van for a diagnosis test run, could be clutch pilot bearing or gearbox related.

Hi Rockron, I would have faith that anything prop shaft related was all done correctly and by the book (I certainly wouldn't know otherwise). The entire prop-shaft was replaced so one could only assume this is not the issue as they (EURO driveshafts & hydraulics) have a good reputation in this field supposedly and are adamant their work is not the issue and who am I to argue. I would also have assumed Western Commercial (Mercedes) would have instantly spotted anything obvious with the UJ or new prop-shaft. They didn't and attributed the fault to wheels/tyres (albeit wrongly).

Western Commercial did test the van on the road as well as on a road runner I'm led to believe. Then again how would you know for sure.

 

[Celticbaz]

What your describing sounds like an out of balance driveshaft

Hi Kev555

EURO driveshafts & hydraulics balanced it I'm led to believe.

 

[Celticbaz]

You can upload your video to YouTube and link it back here

Driveshafts appear quite common on sprinters

Thanks I'll try to do that Blobcat and update when live

 

[Rockron]

I would think you would be justified in returning to the local garage ie those with whom you had a contract, it's up to them to deal with the Euro sub contractor who may not have carried out the balancing satisfactorily. Could be worthwhile going (or threatening to) for a chargeback or section 75 if you paid by debit or credit card. Worth a try, especially if it was made clear, preferably in writing just what you wanted done originally, and which they didn't in fact remedy, and had actually made worse. As proven by at time of presentation of the van to them for inspection.

 

[Celticbaz]

I would think you would be justified in returning to the local garage ie those with whom you had a contract, it's up to them to deal with the Euro sub contractor who may not have carried out the balancing satisfactorily. Could be worthwhile going (or threatening to) for a chargeback or section 75 if you paid by debit or credit card. Worth a try, especially if it was made clear, preferably in writing just what you wanted done originally, and which they didn't in fact remedy, and had actually made worse. As proven by at time of presentation of the van to them for inspection.

Think I'd need a couple of heavies to accompany me down to the garage if I tried that one ha ha! I cannot be bothered with any aggravation and prefer to avoid confrontation. They also have another vehicle of mine which is work in progress. I've decided after that work is done that I just won't go back (shame because they were handy (nearby).

 

[Kev555]

As your original post stated the issue started with a squeak from underneath or rear of van which I would only attribute to three things.
1 A wheel bearing on its way out could make a rumbling or vibration. check for heat at rear hubs after a few miles. I had same squeak in my vito for a while which drove me crazy, checked and adjusted rear parking shoes twice, checked carrier bearing. checked rear bearings but could get no play. Eventually when abs sensor showed gap was bad and a new sensor made no difference i suspected the wheel bearing. Had to change the two within a month as second side started showing up an abs sensor fault too.
2 Carrier bearing known to squeak or vibrate if worn.
3 faulty DMF or clutch would cause a vibration?
Barring all this you'd have to say the current vibration problem never started until the driveshaft was touched so logically thats where id start.

 

[ajlsl600]

Always start where the hand was last. Unless the issue b obvious..

 

[Celticbaz]

Always start where the hand was last. Unless the issue b obvious..

A short update:

The van was back in the local garage to go back to where "the hand was last" before the issue arose. So, they checked the work that was done by the previous garage for it to pass the MOT (break shoes, pivots, adjusters etc). Everything checked out just fine so at least that removes that possibility. The local garage mentioned in passing today that there was too much play in the dual mass flywheel and think this is where the problem lies. They want a few hundred quid to disassemble the gearbox to check.

I also wrote a letter of complaint to the Mercedes dealer and they have offered to investigate the problem further free of charge until they find the fault due to the farce I encountered with them. I am waiting for a date for the van to go in and be looked at by one of their technical specialists. Hopeful I may have some definitive answers soon. Will update what happens.

 

[ajlsl600]

Grand. Hope that works out 4 u.

 

[Celticbaz]

The Sprinter was taken back to the Mercedes dealership last week (a different branch this time some distance away) for their most senior technician to inspect it and try to diagnose the issue. Injectors were checked first as this seemingly can be a cause of the vibration/rumble. They were deemed to be fine so the dual mass flywheel was next to be examined and they concluded that this needs replaced (excessive play in it - which I knew) and is the likely cause of the issue, albeit this diagnosis comes with a caveat of being "just a calculated guess until the work proves this to be the case".

The estimate for the works is as follows:

Job Description - Operation No. 2
Replace flywheel and clutch 597.00 S

Part Number Description QTY List Value *
A0002545208 CLUTCH RELEASE BEARING 250.00 S
A0049905912 SCREW 10.80 S
A0232500201 80 COUPLING 322.00 S
A6510305105 DUAL-MASS FLYWH 581.00 S
A9062640057 LOCKING CAP 3.95 S
N000000005805 HEXALOBULAR BOL 8.10 S

Job Description - Operation No. 3 Operation Value *
Additional time to remove stripped and seized 99.50 S
bolts

Sub Total 2,111.35
Tax Total 422.27
Estimate Total 2,533.62

A pretty hefty amount to have to pay with no guarantee of it fixing the problem. At this stage I am already over £2000 out of pocket on wheels, tyres, prop-shaft and labour. Further opinions on this would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Frontstep]

The usual thing is to take your van out for a run and diagnose when and what causes or alters the noise/s

Uphill, downhill, coasting, in or out of gear etc you can tell so much and from a distance via the internet is not anything other than a guessing game.

It pains me that someone would leave you with the fault it came in with and a bill, is there more from the garages we haven't heard yet?

 

[ajlsl600]

When I was apprentice I spent a few happy hrs moving jubilee clips along and around transit prop, being directed by the boss. We did solve it. Inconvenient, time consuming but free! If you improve situation you know ur in right place?
As above check when this issue actually happens.

 

[ajlsl600]

The Sprinter was taken back to the Mercedes dealership last week (a different branch this time some distance away) for their most senior technician to inspect it and try to diagnose the issue. Injectors were checked first as this seemingly can be a cause of the vibration/rumble. They were deemed to be fine so the dual mass flywheel was next to be examined and they concluded that this needs replaced (excessive play in it - which I knew) and is the likely cause of the issue, albeit this diagnosis comes with a caveat of being "just a calculated guess until the work proves this to be the case".

The estimate for the works is as follows:

Job Description - Operation No. 2
Replace flywheel and clutch 597.00 S

Part Number Description QTY List Value *
A0002545208 CLUTCH RELEASE BEARING 250.00 S
A0049905912 SCREW 10.80 S
A0232500201 80 COUPLING 322.00 S
A6510305105 DUAL-MASS FLYWH 581.00 S
A9062640057 LOCKING CAP 3.95 S
N000000005805 HEXALOBULAR BOL 8.10 S

Job Description - Operation No. 3 Operation Value *
Additional time to remove stripped and seized 99.50 S
bolts

Sub Total 2,111.35
Tax Total 422.27
Estimate Total 2,533.62

A pretty hefty amount to have to pay with no guarantee of it fixing the problem. At this stage I am already over £2000 out of pocket on wheels, tyres, prop-shaft and labour. Further opinions on this would be appreciated, thanks.

Wud not be doing all above cept duel mass flywheel. Call, check with other dealers to confirm likely hood of. If vib is severe be aware that other components will likely suffer.

 

[Frontstep]

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Fault in the dual-mass flywheel, what are the symptoms?

We help you to recognize the failure of a clutch with a dual-mass flywheel. It is not a cheap repair, how much can it cost you? Find out here!

www.actualidadmotor.com

 

[Kev555]

My Vito has Shudder from the clutch taking off at times. I suspect it could be from somebody fitting a solid flywheel at some stage instead of a DMF (Cheaper way of replacing clutch fyi) or my DMF is on its way out. But I have no vibrations ATM. Its a hard call when it comes to spending more money on top of money badly spent due to misdiagnosis regarding the drive shaft etc. I'm guessing two different places diagnosing dual mass and hopefully bearing in mind that their technicians hopefully knew there stuff I also would be betting on the DMF as I mentioned it on an earlier post. Injectors diagnosis was also a good call by the last technician to rule them out.