230TE self-levelling suspension swap (Plymouth Dakar rally preparation!)

[wagwot]

Hi there,

I'm running a W124 230te in the Plymouth-Dakar rally in October (we're actually going Timbuctu!) and would like to swap out the faulty self levelling system for simple conventional springs and shocks. I found a post saying that the saloon suspension will bolt straight on. Do I simply need to source some standard saloon shock and springs? Will they go straight on? Just looking for some confirmation as there were definitely differences of opinion

I appreciate the sophistication of the self levelling but I'm pretty sure whoever buys the car when it’s auctioned for charity would much prefer a simple, easily fixable set-up!

Hope someone can help

 

[Bolide]

Don't do it. Fix the self-levelling

If you'd bought a Citroen BX you wouldn't convert that to steel springs, so why do the same to a W124?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[wagwot]

Thanks for replying Bolide,

I appreciate the uniqueness of the self-levelling system. The problem is that the rally involves 3 day stretches accross unpaved wind and traffic 'corrugated' ground - its a car killer. If the self-levlling were to fail out there then it would be dangerous with a fully laiden load on such rough ground. Conventional shocks and springs are inherently more "fail safe" rather than "fail unsafe" as with the weak self levelling springs.

Plus, simplicity sells in Mali, they adore simple mechanical cars and pay a significant premium for them.

Other than not liking the idea, can you tell me if its a simple as I'd seen on previous posts?

Many thanks

 

[wireman]

The 124T is 100+kg heavier than the saloon, the sallon springs wont be stiff enough to survive the stress. Make the thing right, fit known good parts and set it up correctly, this has got to be safer than something which is essentialy a bodge.

 

[wagwot]

Thanks for coming back to me Wireman - I'll look into getting it fixed and the costs of doing so.

Can anybody confirm that the standard springs and shocks from a w124 saloon will indeed go straight onto the existing self levelling mounts of a W124t?

I'd look to find springs and dampers from a heavier/higher performance model in the hope that the springs would be a bit stiffer to counter the extra weight of the estate.

Many thanks, hope someone can help.

 

[Pontoneer]

I'm not 100% sure , but I think the self levelling struts on the T cars are shorter than the standard shocks on the saloons/coupes .

The self levelling when properly maintained is pretty robust - the pipework tends to be the weak link . I suppose you might burst a sphere on bad terrain but you could always take spares with you ...

I wonder if shock makers like Monroe still do the load-leveller type shocks that you can pump up with a tyre pump to compensate for loads .

 

[wagwot]

Thanks for that Pontaneer...

What you say fits with what I'd seen in some old posts where someone mention the back of the car being jacked a bit following the swap.

It would be good to use the self levelling but, should a failure occur which we couldn't fix, then the rally is over - if I swap it out and a shock blows, then at least we should be able to keep running (albeit bouncily!).

I've ordered some shocks and springs from a 280 (assuming there a bit stiffer), if they fit then I'll difinitely give consideration to some load-levelling shocks or at least some low tech air lifters (www.airliftcompany.com).

 

[auntiephil]

on a recent edition of 'wheeler dealers' on Discovery turbo, the mechanic Ed China changed the self leveling rear suspension on a 190e cosworth(2.5 16v i think) to a lowered and uprated conventional system,without batting an eyelid.
so i dont see a problem in doing this.They didnt identify the system, altho in the end credits 'supertracker' came up.
i belieive H&R do springs to work with the sls,but in any case i think the sls is going to be far too fragile for the rally.phil.

 

[Bolide]

There's a huge amount of wooly thinking going on here. If you're planning to re-engineer the rear suspension on a car I suggest doing your homework before starting. As I see it, you have two choices: re-engineer the rear suspension or keep the car standard

To re-engineer it:

You'll need to know the weight of the car and - very important - the load you're going to carry. Then you'll need to know the weight distribution front - rear. Then decide what ride height you want. Then the suspension rate. Then you can specify a spring and, following that, a damper

At this point you may realise that the springs and spring mounts on the rear of a T-Model are not designed to take the full suspension load of the car - the self-levelling legs are. So you'll need to decide if you can use the existing spring mounts or not. Or find a coilover system that will fit and deal with the loads & conditions

Once you've done that you can proceed to testing the system & fine-tuning the spring rate, damping & ride height

Then you can disable the self-levelling system

Then you can think about whether the change in spring rate will affect the lateral stiffness and require you to change the rear antiroll bar

Then you can test the new ARB

- or

You can leave it standard


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[BlackC55]

There's a huge amount of wooly thinking going on here. If you're planning to re-engineer the rear suspension on a car I suggest doing your homework before starting. As I see it, you have two choices: re-engineer the rear suspension or keep the car standard

To re-engineer it:

You'll need to know the weight of the car and - very important - the load you're going to carry. Then you'll need to know the weight distribution front - rear. Then decide what ride height you want. Then the suspension rate. Then you can specify a spring and, following that, a damper

At this point you may realise that the springs and spring mounts on the rear of a T-Model are not designed to take the full suspension load of the car - the self-levelling legs are. So you'll need to decide if you can use the existing spring mounts or not. Or find a coilover system that will fit and deal with the loads & conditions

Once you've done that you can proceed to testing the system & fine-tuning the spring rate, damping & ride height

Then you can disable the self-levelling system

Then you can think about whether the change in spring rate will affect the lateral stiffness and require you to change the rear antiroll bar

Then you can test the new ARB

- or

You can leave it standard


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Exactly........

 

[wagwot]

Thanks to you all for your input.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this but it is basically a banger rally and this w124 really is pushing the remit of about getting a car together for £100 - don't blame me, these are the rules!

Plus GDP per capita in Mali is about £300/person/YEAR... so simple really is best. BUT it does have to get there, and it has to work. Plus this isn't a race so ride and handling has to be functional rather than professional.

I've some springs and dampers on order from mercman - we're talking £60 here so it is not too costly an experiment. If it doesn't work then I won't be shy in telling you that you were right all along and I should've known better!!

I will keep you posted on where this ends up... but thanks again, this is a useful forum!