9-Gtronic in petrol GLC 250 is a PITA

[Steve@Avantgarde]

then we got women involved... who of course don't want dry skin, so face level vents are now seen by the marketing men as the devils spawn. And you end up where we are nowadays, with either feet and face OK but the screens misted up, screen and feet OK but cold hands … next we got car manufactures' inventing one warm hand and one cold hand, by messing up the centre air vents (with a different temp to the outer ones), I presume for some imaginary heat soak that is actually only on one side of the car at any one time (so any temp differentiation is just a mistake). Thus we end up with everyone normal now has to have one hand and arm cold plus either, cold feet or misted screen... which ultimately means the new focus, the new 3 series and all Mercedes need to be scrapped as the face level vents are in the wrong place

then of course we can wonder what the engineers were thinking without women's help.

What a complete load of mysogonistic BS.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I get worried when customer clinics start to influence how cars are made

on BMs there used to be proper heating controls with one slider for feet, one for face and one for screen, you set each one in one position when you first got the car and never touched it for the life of the car.

then we got women involved... who of course don't want dry skin, so face level vents are now seen by the marketing men as the devils spawn. And you end up where we are nowadays, with either feet and face OK but the screens misted up, screen and feet OK but cold hands … next we got car manufactures' inventing one warm hand and one cold hand, by messing up the centre air vents (with a different temp to the outer ones), I presume for some imaginary heat soak that is actually only on one side of the car at any one time (so any temp differentiation is just a mistake). Thus we end up with everyone normal now has to have one hand and arm cold plus either, cold feet or misted screen... which ultimately means the new focus, the new 3 series and all Mercedes need to be scrapped as the face level vents are in the wrong place

then of course we can wonder what the engineers were thinking without women's help.

On both cars and bikes some halfwit at BMW hasn't worked out if its set up for sporty driving why not just re-enable the safety features if an owner then sets cruise control and put it back to back how he set it when its off... No, they just disable cruise from working instead - so you either park the car and walk coz its less stress! or spend half an hour not looking where you are going twiddling knobs and menus back and forth so the car drives normally (which of course is far safer)

and....if it was just about money why add a redundant button on the dash

my last one has this wind up the air con to max feature which then didn't revert air flow settings back to how you had it beforehand, and so you manually have to reconfigure everything - so you had to remember to never touch the button

Customer clinics of one form or another have been influencing pretty much everything since Olaf the Hairy, King of All Vikings, had a delivery of 10,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. Actually, way before that, we have direct documentary evidence of Roman legionaries conducting armour trials for ergonomics somewhere around the second century BC.

So yes they influence the content and layout of cars. Not so much how they’re made, that’s a result of build standards and design philosophy.

Do women have a part to play? Well given how they represent about 44% of drivers globally then ignoring their feedback would be... unwise.

 

[ajlsl600]

Dang - and it used to be just NVH!
Ain't progress complicated.

simply put. i can see no real reason for 9 GEARS no matter how many 1,000,s sit around a table, dreaming up some new score/scheme... . 6 just about, 9 madness and far to complex, might as well put a variable belt drive,less parts, , I would love to know the last three ratios........

 

[rf065]

simply put. i can see no real reason for 9 GEARS no matter how many 1,000,s sit around a table, dreaming up some new score/scheme... . 6 just about, 9 madness and far to complex, might as well put a variable belt drive,less parts, , I would love to know the last three ratios........

Simply put, I have two cars with 9 gears and wouldn't want anything less now. The higher gears are like an overdrive, perfect for long hours on the motorway. My SLC300 on a long motorway run can achieve over 50mpg, incredible for a petrol engine with almost 250bhp.

 

[Craiglxviii]

simply put. i can see no real reason for 9 GEARS no matter how many 1,000,s sit around a table, dreaming up some new score/scheme... . 6 just about, 9 madness and far to complex, might as well put a variable belt drive,less parts, , I would love to know the last three ratios........

Why not? It wasn’t that long ago we had 3 speed manuals with syncro only on first. And look at the service intervals of those cars.

The fact remains that the 7G transmission can do 450k between rebuilds, it’s cheaper and more economical to build, uses far less of far less noxious substances in its build and has pretty much set the bar for automotive transmissions. The 9G is an extension of that.

By the way, the reason is that there are three schools of thought for car transmissions. One says, multi speed (say 7G etc). One says CVT. The other says IFEP. The CVT lobby is pushed by Nissan; it meets the Asian mindset for a “seamless” powertrain. Horrid things, torque limited. The IFEP lobby is gaining traction (‘scuse the pun) as PHEV sales increase, so the costs come down. Huge torque and a perfect matching of the power curve. The multi speed lobby attempts to match as many points as economically feasible on the power curve while maintaining drivability.

 

[ajlsl600]

Why not? It wasn’t that long ago we had 3 speed manuals with syncro only on first. And look at the service intervals of those cars.

The fact remains that the 7G transmission can do 450k between rebuilds, it’s cheaper and more economical to build, uses far less of far less noxious substances in its build and has pretty much set the bar for automotive transmissions. The 9G is an extension of that.

By the way, the reason is that there are three schools of thought for car transmissions. One says, multi speed (say 7G etc). One says CVT. The other says IFEP. The CVT lobby is pushed by Nissan; it meets the Asian mindset for a “seamless” powertrain. Horrid things, torque limited. The IFEP lobby is gaining traction (‘scuse the pun) as PHEV sales increase, so the costs come down. Huge torque and a perfect matching of the power curve. The multi speed lobby attempts to match as many points as economically feasible on the power curve while maintaining drivability.

hearing you, but not going for it. i just feel that 5,6 gears does what i need with less complication and cost to me as ,if,when they need a rebuild .and whilst i have no benz tranny experience, i have rebuilt a good number of others . and thats NOT due to benz reliability its mostly cos i know less people with a benz.

 

[rorywquin]

Why not? It wasn’t that long ago we had 3 speed manuals with syncro only on first. .

I learned to drive in a car with no synchro...we have come a long way.

 

[thebiglad]

I learned to drive in a car with no synchro...we have come a long way.

Hi Rory, I'm not sure we have actually come a long way. The basic format of internal combustion engine attached to a form of gearbox has been around since the 1920's. Yes there have been developments and refinements but honestly it's still the same basic idea.

If you test drive an electric car you'll see what I mean. It doesn't matter whether it's a Tesla Model 3, a Nissan Leaf, a Hyundai Kona or Ionic or any of the latest crop, you'll see what I mean.

Smooth as an S-class, quick as an SL or SLK, they really feel modern, new up to date. NO GEARBOXES - in the conventionally understood sense of the word.

 

[rorywquin]

IMO, the modern engines, gearboxes, safety, tyres, driver aids etc are a huge advance on what I first drove ('65 Morris Mini 850cc)

Electrics are the next step in the journey - still very impractical to own for anything other than short commutes and ****** expensive. However as they improve (range, price etc) a Tupperware box with wheels and batteries could be on my shopping list.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Hi Rory, I'm not sure we have actually come a long way. The basic format of internal combustion engine attached to a form of gearbox has been around since the 1920's. Yes there have been developments and refinements but honestly it's still the same basic idea.

If you test drive an electric car you'll see what I mean. It doesn't matter whether it's a Tesla Model 3, a Nissan Leaf, a Hyundai Kona or Ionic or any of the latest crop, you'll see what I mean.

Smooth as an S-class, quick as an SL or SLK, they really feel modern, new up to date. NO GEARBOXES - in the conventionally understood sense of the word.

All of those cars have conventional transmissions of one form or another. They are not hub motor direct drive, it’s too expensive and not yet practical in any case. So all they have done is replace the prime mover without changing the means of power delicery. The Leaf takes the same CVT box as Juke & Qashqai for example.

 

[thebiglad]

All of those cars have conventional transmissions of one form or another. They are not hub motor direct drive, it’s too expensive and not yet practical in any case. So all they have done is replace the prime mover without changing the means of power delicery. The Leaf takes the same CVT box as Juke & Qashqai for example.

Sorry Craig but there are some inaccuracies in your post.

1. All the factory 100% EV cars that I've actually driven do not have conventional transmissions. There is no shifter, there are no multiple gear ratios, there is no clutch or torque converter.

2. The Nissan Leaf does no have a CVT gearbox. Like all 100% electric cars they have a single speed transfer box bolted onto the electric motor, the output of which goes directly to wheels. There are no diffs.

 

[thebiglad]

IMO, the modern engines, gearboxes, safety, tyres, driver aids etc are a huge advance on what I first drove ('65 Morris Mini 850cc)

Electrics are the next step in the journey - still very impractical to own for anything other than short commutes and ****** expensive. However as they improve (range, price etc) a Tupperware box with wheels and batteries could be on my shopping list.

Range on an EV? 400+ kms and growing. Recharge time? 30-40 mins and reducing. so long enough to have a coffee and a pee.

So you start off in the morning with a 100% charged-up car, drive 300kms (perhaps 2hrs or more) pull over and have a break and a bite to eat whilst your car charges up. Continue on your journey for another 300 kms and repeat...................

The latest Hyundai Kona EV was tested in Norway recently and achieved 508 kms on 1 charge.

Plus if you put panels on your roof you can make your own energy to drive your car as well as powering your house.

 

[ajlsl600]

Range on an EV? 400+ kms and growing. Recharge time? 30-40 mins and reducing. so long enough to have a coffee and a pee.

So you start off in the morning with a 100% charged-up car, drive 300kms (perhaps 2hrs or more) pull over and have a break and a bite to eat whilst your car charges up. Continue on your journey for another 300 kms and repeat...................

The latest Hyundai Kona EV was tested in Norway recently and achieved 508 kms on 1 charge.

Plus if you put panels on your roof you can make your own energy to drive your car as well as powering your house.

what concerns me about these cars is battery life and cost to replace, and whilst we are at it what are the green credentials of disposing of and producing ,delivering said batteries ?
i see a need for this direction ,but feel it will end up kicked into touch when hydrogen cars get properly sorted .
of note to me ,everything i have that is electrically,ie battery powered lets me down battery wise after a yr or two and costs me about 80% of the initial outlay to replace, not keen on that idea as far as cars concerned.

 

[range rover]

what concerns me about these cars is battery life and cost to replace, and whilst we are at it what are the green credentials of disposing of and producing ,delivering said batteries ?
i see a need for this direction ,but feel it will end up kicked into touch when hydrogen cars get properly sorted .
of note to me ,everything i have that is electrically,ie battery powered lets me down battery wise after a yr or two and costs me about 80% of the initial outlay to replace, not keen on that idea as far as cars concerned.

Yes I agree. that would be my worry along with the questionable 'green credentials', at this moment my vote goes to hydrogen. But I will use a lot of diesel in the interim!

 

[ajlsl600]

Yes I agree. that would be my worry along with the questionable 'green credentials', at this moment my vote goes to hydrogen. But I will use a lot of diesel in the interim!

same as that buddy !!!!!!!!!!! i dont jump down the tech road ,until some other mug has been thru the customer funded R&D

 

[thebiglad]

what concerns me about these cars is battery life and cost to replace, and whilst we are at it what are the green credentials of disposing of and producing ,delivering said batteries ?
i see a need for this direction ,but feel it will end up kicked into touch when hydrogen cars get properly sorted .
of note to me ,everything i have that is electrically,ie battery powered lets me down battery wise after a yr or two and costs me about 80% of the initial outlay to replace, not keen on that idea as far as cars concerned.

Batteries :
Their effective lifespan. Nobody knows for sure because Lithium battery with the chemistry currently being used in the likes of Tesla have only been around for about 8-9 yrs in EV applications. However what we already do know is the battery degradation over that period. Renault suffered badly, replacing some under gttee, Nissan's early attempts were not great but have got better. Tesla who are the longest running in a production car have suffered approx 4% over the life of model S so approx 8 years.

And when finished the EV application? Battery packs are currently being taken out of cars by Tesla, Renault and Nissan and used in stand-by power storage applications. So no, not thrown away and littering the planet continuing with a useful life.

Incidentally, in the UK the average daily journey (inc commuting) is 32 mls. So any EV sold today can cope with 5 days of that before needing a charge.

I understand that it is difficult for some to accept that battery powered vehicles are here to stay for a very long future, but do a little research from around the world and you'll see it's really happening right now.

As an example, here in France every commune was offered free EV chargers. Our village has a 2 stall jobby but I will be charging at home.

In China the fastest selling new cars are all 100 EV.

There is a taxi firm that is 100% EV, using 150 Tesla Model S. In Norway Over 60% of all new car sales are Full EV's. Mercedes have just launched their new 7.5 ton 100% electric delivery lorry.

Coca Cola have just ordered 300 full electric 42 ton articulated lorries.

Etc

Etc

Etc

 

[ajlsl600]

you come home on fri night after a week of commuting granny calls from 180 miles away and needs you .car is in charge ? i hear they dont like being pulled from charge before complete.. i see lots of issues. as far as industry is concerned. think coke are more interested in the " maybe" green credentials than the practical abilities. short run taxis maybe. inner cities maybe .out of town rural areas bit like the internet.yr buxxered if you have no alternative.. i am in rural france and cant even dream of downloading a movie. lets see where electric cars actually are 20yr from now .

 

[Srdl]

What about Andy and his problem with his GLC?

 

[thebiglad]

What about Andy and his problem with his GLC?

I would say it needs to go back to the supplier and see if there are updates for engine and gearbox that need installing.

 

[rorywquin]

[QUOTE="thebiglad, post: 1679392, member: 91778"
So you start off in the morning with a 100% charged-up car, drive 300kms (perhaps 2hrs or more) pull over and have a break and a bite to eat whilst your car charges up. Continue on your journey for another 300 kms and repeat...................

.[/QUOTE]


300 km in the UK will take you nearly 4 hours (ave +- 50mph) ........and then you arrive at your stop where half the charge points do not work and the others are already in use.....now you have a 2 or more hour wait for your car to be charged. Add this to the 30 minute break you had after the first 2 hours of driving and now suddenly your trip is a lot longer........not quite the rosy picture the manufacturers want to sell us.

In addition to the foregoing, the ranges advertised are only achieved under optimal driving (battery) conditions. Gentle acceleration, no headwind, one person in the car & no baggage, ideal temperatures etc.

Although there is encouraging news on battery life, short of physically damaging it, fast charging is still the worst thing you can do to a battery and the jury is still out on part charging, non-optimal cycling etc.

Payback on solar panels is still a ridiculous number of years.