Agility finance

[dieselman]

The finance company will do everything they can to try and get you to admit you know about finance.
The usual trick is to say something along the lines of "All we need from you is to say you asked the seller if there was finance on the car and he told you there was none, we can then persue the original agreement holder for the funds.'
At that point you are liable for monies owing.

You need to say "I never even considered finance, it was never even mentioned."

As long as you say it was never even a thought they can not come after you or your car.

I don't really follow you there. By asking about finance and being told there was none, surely you have made a reasonable check and have attempted to ensure the car wasn't covered by finance. By not asking you have not been diligent, thus should be more liable.

When buying Mrs Dm's car I asked about finance and was told the owner would pay it up on receipt of funds and still have no need to doubt Him.

I asked VAG finance if this absolved my liability if he failed to pay and they said they would recover the car.

I paid the finance and we both were sent a fax of release of title.

 

[Rory]

Agility is simply a regulated hire purchase agreement with a large final payment which helps keep the monthly figure down, the final payment is based around the cars estimated value, and is usually pretty conservative, the reason it is pretty conservative is because Mercedes finance guarantee they will give you at least this amount for the car back.

They don't give you anything back - you give them money or the car.

You need to say "I never even considered finance, it was never even mentioned."

If it ended up in a court a Judge either wouldn't believe you or would think you so stupid that you deserve to lose to the car.

This is a furiously complicated area, but not being liable depends on you being the "first innocent purchaser".

But it’s a bit irrelevant anyway, these days who would buy a used car and not get it HPI'd?

 

[gizze]

I don't really follow you there. By asking about finance and being told there was none, surely you have made a reasonable check and have attempted to ensure the car wasn't covered by finance. By not asking you have not been diligent, thus should be more liable.

You would think so but it is not the case.

By law all the finance house needs is an admission that finance was discussed and therefore thought about, and then they can come after the car.

If it was not discussed and the buyer had no knowledge of finance they have to go after the person who took out the finance and not the vehicle.


One of my best mates used to work in the recovery department of a big finance house and his job was to get an admission in writing that finance was discussed, it is all very underhand and imho needs to be regulated better.

 

[gizze]

But it’s a bit irrelevant anyway, these days who would buy a used car and not get it HPI'd?

Well...........

When buying Mrs Dm's car I asked about finance and was told the owner would pay it up on receipt of funds and still have no need to doubt Him.

Some people then don't follow up with........

I asked VAG finance if this absolved my liability if he failed to pay and they said they would recover the car.

I paid the finance and we both were sent a fax of release of title.

I don't want this to get into an argument, and I agree with everything that has been said above, but what I have written above is true and very unknown and I feel is very underhand, and goes against everything most honest people presume would be the norm, hence why I mentioned it.


There was a thread on Pistonheads not long ago where someones wife bought a car which had outstanding finance on it, a few pages in he posted that someone from the finance house was coming round that night to get a signed statement saying he had asked the buyer if any finance was on it and they buyer said "No" and was told that this would mean they could then leave him alone and chase the guy who took the finance out.
Everyone told him to say it was never mentioned.
He didn't, he trusted the finance house, he gave the statement and they took the car 15 minutes later.

Be careful.

 

[dieselman]

Well...........




Some people then don't follow up with........

I don't understand you here.

I asked the seller, he said he would pay. As a matter of course I HPi checked the car and gained the finance Co details so rang them up.

To this day I've no reason to think he wouldn't have paid the finance up, but paying them directly meant I could be 100% sure all liability was absolved and I had written proof I had paid the finance in full.

 

[Rory]

There was a thread on Pistonheads not long ago where someones wife bought a car which had outstanding finance on it, a few pages in he posted that someone from the finance house was coming round that night to get a signed statement saying he had asked the buyer if any finance was on it and they buyer said "No" and was told that this would mean they could then leave him alone and chase the guy who took the finance out.
Everyone told him to say it was never mentioned.
He didn't, he trusted the finance house, he gave the statement and they took the car 15 minutes later.

Be careful.

If that's the thread I'm thinking of, they weren't the first innocent purchaser - a previous owner still had finance outstanding on it. It's tough, but if someone further back up the ownership chain had finance then the car is going to be taken away. Only the first buyer is protected. It's not an unusual occurance, and the earlier sellers may well be colluding.

 

[hawk20]

They don't give you anything back - you give them money or the car.

Not necessarily. You may find that the part ex value is higher than the guaranteed future value in which case you do get money back to put towards the car you are part exchanging against. Doesn't always happen, of course, but it does sometimes. Depends how buoyant the secong-hand market is.

BTW worth trying with several dealers as I have found the part ex value varies considerably from one dealer to another. I have found the price is better the further north I go.

 

[Rory]

Not necessarily. You may find that the part ex value is higher than the guaranteed future value in which case you do get money back to put towards the car you are part exchanging against. Doesn't always happen, of course, but it does sometimes.

That wasn't what gizze said though, as you well know.

He wrote that Mercedes give you back the GFV, which isn't correct.

I'm sure he didn't mean that, but we have learned that a lot of people don't fully understand how PCPs work. You graciously admitted that the one you had on your A Class caught you out when you wanted to terminate early, as Mercedes misled you.

 

[hawk20]

That wasn't what gizze said though, as you well know.

He wrote that Mercedes give you back the GFV, which isn't correct.

I'm sure he didn't mean that, but we have learned that a lot of people don't fully understand how PCPs work. .

Not as I well know. I read what he said to mean they give a part ex value at least as much as the GFV so you have a surplus -however small- towards the deposit on your next car. But I accept that you could quite fairly have read it differently.

Yes PCP's are often much misunderstood.

I think your other point refers to a salesman giving me 'less than perfect' information. The info from MB has been full and detailed.

 

[zeeshh]

I just bought my car on Agility finance (£750 contribution from MB offer) and going to collect it tomorrow. What I understood is that if I don't sell it before 3 year, and want to go for another cycly of Agility finance after 3 year then it seems like a good deal where my initial deposit lowered the monthly outgoing and I can always drive a newest cars.

And what the salesman made me understand that i can terminate or restart a new cycle any time as all amounts are pre-agreed i.e. GFV and APR etc. Also I even can pay extra payments to bring my monthly installment further low.

Hope I understood correctly?
cheers...

 

[gizze]

Mercedes agility works like every other car finance package.

You fund the car for the term you want to keep it and only fund the depreciation, as you say, to keep the monthly payments down.

You can get out at any time as explained earlier, you simply get a settlement figure and sell the car.
You can sell it to who ever you want, but you do need to clear the finance.

Remember that buying from a main dealer you will have paid top price, so if you want out after 12 months you may find you owe more than it is worth.
Depends how much deposit you put down.

It is a fairly good way of doing things, however, with Mercedes and others getting seriously caught out in 2008/9 with cars coming back being worth a lot less than they had agreed to buy them back for, the residuals they are setting now are far lower, so no longer the cheapest way to fund a car.
Probably more realistic, but no longer the cheapest.

In 2006 I bought my 12 month old 535d for £35K, after 4 years they were giving me a GFV of £21k, this made the car £420 a month.
I got a quote for a £35k 530d touring for my old man a few months back and after 3 years they were offering a £12k balloon, which is probably a bit low and would see around £4k back at the end, but it meant the monthly payments were nearly £600 a month.


Contract Hire is now the cheapest way to fund a car.
Mainly cause the hire companies are in complete control and get the car back to sell on.

I was considering a Volvo V60 estate, the super green 115bhp DrivE model is £25k new, but I have just had a quote for £122 a month plus vat so £145 with £1400 deposit over 24 months.
To buy on Volvos agility they want £5000 deposit and then £299 a month and then £15000 at the end.

So £11900 on agility or £4750 on contract hire.

My Dads partner ha just collected his brand new E250cdi sport estate, leather and comand and he is paying £324 a month plus vat. so £390 a month.
He put down £1200 and he can do 12,000 miles a year, to do 18k miles a year took it to £405 a month.
I don't think you could but a 3 year old one for cash and loose less than that each month.


Everyone has their views on this and some people just can not stomach any form of borrowing, which I totally get.
However, I just think you have got to buy the car you want in the cheapest way possible.
Being British we love to 'own' things and hate to 'rent' things, the thought of paying out and not seeing anything at the end tends to nark us big time, but on a depreciating asset that is all that ever happens anyway.

 

[gizze]

Normally, paying extra reduces the term or the final value, you get to choose, rarely does it reduce the monthly payments, so interesting that Mercedes finance may do that.

 

[zeeshh]

Things are very clear now on Agility
But in my view, for this time this is in my favour as they gave me good part exchange price and 750 on top of it which reduces my cash contribution towards deposit and FGV I'm getting is not very unrealistic.

But, though I am very expert but I did ask few friends to have good understanding of this scheme and I'm happy that e.g. for a 22k car today, I'm paying 26k after 3 year and with top E class model i would be able to keep it for few more years.

Question: Should we put more deposit in the begining?

cheers...

 

[gizze]

Keeping the car for longer than 3 years does mean aglity makes more sense.
Have you enquired how much it would be to finance it over 60 months with no balloon?

Don't put more deposit in, try and put down as little as possible. Unless you are buying outright over 60 months.


I can tell you that I have just set up a new agreement with Lombard for £21900, it is with £1900 deposit and the repayments are £374 a month over 60 months.
Same amount and deposit over 36 months was £381 with a final payment of £8800.

I decided that I would rather have it for 60 months and own it. I can still get out after 36 months if I want, but I wont be in a situation in 36 months where I have to find £9000 or sell it.
Plus I don't have to worry about mileage either, if it does loads more miles I just sell it privately or keep it for the full 5 years.

 

[gizze]

That is why dealers love agility, it tends to mean repeat business at the end of the term.

 

[Geezer]

Can Agility be utilised for used cars?

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Keeping the car for longer than 3 years does mean agility makes more sense.
Have you enquired how much it would be to finance it over 60 months with no balloon?

Don't put more deposit in, try and put down as little as possible. Unless you are buying outright over 60 months.


I can tell you that I have just set up a new agreement with Lombard for £21900, it is with £1900 deposit and the repayments are £374 a month over 60 months.
Same amount and deposit over 36 months was £381 with a final payment of £8800.

I decided that I would rather have it for 60 months and own it. I can still get out after 36 months if I want, but I wont be in a situation in 36 months where I have to find £9000 or sell it.
Plus I don't have to worry about mileage either, if it does loads more miles I just sell it privately or keep it for the full 5 years.

I did the sums several times when I had company cars. When you take into account the Chancellor's "benefit in kind" taxation, if you finance it yourself in this way (and decline the use of a fuel card - reclaim business miles at the "fuel only" agreed mileage rate (AMR)), you generate tax free cash and end up owning the car at the conclusion of the period.

 

[zeeshh]

That's a good idea Alex.

The dealer did ask me for 60 month lease but the £750/- gift voucher is only for Agility scheme so I went for Agile. I think it's the same you pay 60 installments and own the car or pay 36 installments and pay the baloon to own the car. If there's any small difference then I've already got it in the form of £750 voucher.

am I right?
cheers...

 

[gizze]

Normally, Mercedes contribution is just for using their finance, not normally finance specific, but you would have to ask them, it changes.

You then need to do the maths and see if the interest on agility is more or less than the contribution.

I got 4.8% apr on 60 month repayment from Lombard but only managed 5.9% on 36 month with balloon.

That works out at £2480 interest over the 5 years, and £2536 over 36 months.

Plus you then have to fund the extra £8800 at the end.
This would cost you £400 a month over 2 years as the rates on sub £10k are lower, meaning you clear the finance and it has cost you an additional £1050.

So, 60 months is cheaper....... if you get a better rate.


I am often amazed that people haggle extremely hard on the car and then sign up to a rate that has cost them more than the discount they have got.
You need to look at the whole thing.

 

[zeeshh]

I've readjusted the agility plan with MB today i.e. I've reduced my deposit by 4k and that increased my monthly installment. Now for a 22k car with a deposit of 3500, I'm paying 356 per month, baloon is 10230.

I did get a calculation for 48 months lease plan and seems like its not much difference and when on agility I have an option to change/cancel the agreement any time with settelement.

In my opinion for Agility plan; Buy an approved used car, keep deposit as low as much possible, let the baloon value increase and adjust the monthly installment as per your affordability. Then don't buy the car by paying baloon, at the end of the 36 months.

In case you want to keep the car for a longer period then go for 48 or 60 installments plan, with maximum deposit you can afford which returns some reasonable affordable monthly installments.

Hope I'm correct, though I've signed for agility
cheers...