another problem ?

[mr rosher]

my e280 has developed a cutting out problem, got in her last week on monday to go to work and she started with the shakes on about 400 rpm and died, trouble to get her started again took at least four tries, and then she was off, no more problems, she,s been left standing at work for a week as i,ve worked away, got in her this morning started first time no problems,
tonight took the wife around her friends and after we done about 5-6 miles
it nearly died as i was slowing down at crossroads, then everytime you stop after that just cuts out, she will start again first turn of the key, but if you just sit there on idle after say 20-30 seconds the idle goes up and down and dies again restart her and she does the same thing, i put the blink tester on her and it reads 4 blinks on pin 8 air mass, clear the code and try again it reads sometimes 11 blinks or 13 blinks clear the codes again start her and the samething cuts out after 20-30 seconds,read codes again you get 4 blinks and the whole thing starts all over again, this was a new bosch air mass last year, is it possible to have gone so soon, the cars only done about 4000 miles since new air mass, i have disconect when running and it seams a bit better

 

[Benzlady]

What year is your car?

 

[lakeside]

I was reading your other thread about lack of spark, loom repairs etc. Did you end up fitting a complete new wiring harness? If not it could be harness-related, or maybe the ECU has been damaged after your repaired loom burnt out.

 

[kth286]

It seems as though the connecting wires to your Lambda sensor is intermittent.

Codes 11 and 13 are both Lambda sensor.

It may be the heater circuit or the signal circuit, but probably both if the connector is intermitent.

As you probably know by now, the wires from the sensor fitted into the exhaust under the
front floor, come through the floor into connector under mat on driver's side.

You should check the soundness of the connector and perhaps measure continuity of the circuits of the sensor.

It may even be that the wires under car have chaffed on exhaust pipe and burnt insulation and therefore occasionally shorting to bodywork.

Also check wires are not touching prop shaft.

 

[mr rosher]

What year is your car?

hi benzlady thanks for the reply, its 1992 e280 straight six

 

[mr rosher]

I was reading your other thread about lack of spark, loom repairs etc. Did you end up fitting a complete new wiring harness? If not it could be harness-related, or maybe the ECU has been damaged after your repaired loom burnt out.

hi lakeside, the wiring harness was taken off then myself and a mate who,s an auto electrician stripped the whole thing back one wire at a time, we had to take the wires right back to the ecu plug before we could make a good connection roughly about 8" from the plug,eash wire was then soldered together and had heat shrink tubing placed over the join, we then traced each wire to its end E,G temp sensor plug / injecters and so on, then resoldered the new wire to that plug, so the wiring is basically new, what you were saying about the ECU may have been damaged is possible, when the loom burnt out it did take out the airmass / air sensor / and the O.V.P.R, but since replacing all this she,s been great until that night, the next day back to normal no cutting out just sits at 650-700 RPM ?

 

[mr rosher]

It seems as though the connecting wires to your Lambda sensor is intermittent.

Codes 11 and 13 are both Lambda sensor.

It may be the heater circuit or the signal circuit, but probably both if the connector is intermitent.

As you probably know by now, the wires from the sensor fitted into the exhaust under the
front floor, come through the floor into connector under mat on driver's side.

You should check the soundness of the connector and perhaps measure continuity of the circuits of the sensor.

It may even be that the wires under car have chaffed on exhaust pipe and burnt insulation and therefore occasionally shorting to bodywork.

Also check wires are not touching prop shaft.

thanks kth286, what you said would make sence so will check this out this morning, the car is now running fine again, i,ve been searching the post and seen the same sort of problems on other e280, that related to a fuel relay / or the crank shaft sensor, as on tuesday night when this happened it was just as if she ran out of fuel / or the key was turned of, you say measure the continuity of the circuits of the sensor, i would get my mate to do it but he,s gone away for easter and not back until thursday night, so can do you do this, thanks again for the reply, rod

 

[mr rosher]

thanks kth286, what you said would make sence so will check this out this morning, the car is now running fine again, i,ve been searching the post and seen the same sort of problems on other e280, that related to a fuel relay / or the crank shaft sensor, as on tuesday night when this happened it was just as if she ran out of fuel / or the key was turned of, you say measure the continuity of the circuits of the sensor, i would get my mate to do it but he,s gone away for easter and not back until thursday night, so can do you do this, thanks again for the reply, rod

hi again kth286, today removed the lambda sensor and checked all the connections and they seem ok and no burnt wires, now what you said has got me thinking, last year i changed the lambda sensor as was what i thought was a problem because i was getting a rich fuel mixture on the emissons, but later found out, it was the air mass at fault so change that, now is it possible because the air mass was at fault and not the lambda, its now done in the lambda, i should say after the lambda was changed it made no difference to the rich mixture until i changed the air mass, but then the car had only covered six hundred miles before it was taken off the road for 8 months, also i don,t know if its my imagination but she seems to be useing more fuel since tuesday night, i,ve checked the fuse on the O.V.P.R and thats fine and it was a new O.V.P.R last year so its not the old one with duff soldering, any advice would be appreciated, thanks rod

 

[kth286]

rod

those codes 11 and 13 point to Lambda sensor . Do you agree on that ?

Why not leave lambda sensor connector under carpet disconnected and see if it triggers the codes again. That will prove that Lmbda sensor circuit is getting an intermittent connection somewhere. It is just a matter of finding where the connection is going bad.

 

[mr rosher]

rod

those codes 11 and 13 point to Lambda sensor . Do you agree on that ?

Why not leave lambda sensor connector under carpet disconnected and see if it triggers the codes again. That will prove that Lmbda sensor circuit is getting an intermittent connection somewhere. It is just a matter of finding where the connection is going bad.

thanks for the help kth286, i will try this in the morning, i have read somewhere that code 13 is lambda sensor but can,t remember where, so yes i would agree with you on this,
on the connecting plug from the car to the lambda is there any sort of voltage i can check for with a volt meter either with key on / not running / or with the engine running, and if so which wire and what volts

thanks again for your help, rod

 

[mr rosher]

thanks for the help kth286, i will try this in the morning, i have read somewhere that code 13 is lambda sensor but can,t remember where, so yes i would agree with you on this,
on the connecting plug from the car to the lambda is there any sort of voltage i can check for with a volt meter either with key on / not running / or with the engine running, and if so which wire and what volts

thanks again for your help, rod

right, this morning i gave the lambda sensor a gentle wipe with a lint free cloth as it was coked in a very dry soot and gave it a few hard blows with an air compressure, refitted it, checked the codes and cleared them, then started her, started first time, left it say a minute or so, turned her off and re,checked the codes with tester, 4 blinks, cleared codes again, and run the whole process again with the plug dissconected from the lambda, again 4 blinks, took her for a run about 7-8 miles read codes again, 4 blinks cleared these, then 13 blinks again, now for the first time since i can remember when i got back home there was a really bad smell of eggs, which tells me the cat is working, i`ve found the wright up on the codes, and as you said 13 blinks is the 02S (lambda) control system operating at rich or lean limit, so in your opinion kth286 do think i,ve got a short,or has the lambda had it, i,ve tried to trace the wires from the lambda plugs back through the body work but once i get to under the dash i loose them, and can,t find where they go after this,

thanks again for your help on this one , rod

 

[television]

The O2 sensor measures the burnt gasses passing through the exhaust.

How this works is lke this.

The air coming into the filter box has a temp sensor that is linkrs to the ECU.

The MAF measures the volume of air and quality and is linked to the ECU.

The engine ECU has this info and sets up the mixture accordinly.

If the fuel passing through the engine is too strong or weak, then the O2 sensor (lambda) that is wired into the ECU tells the ECU to adjust the mixture to correct it.

The other thing that you have is the EGR valve, if this sticks open then the engine can stall at idle

 

[jibcl500]

I would suggest MAF again, just a hunch, is your MAF the old hot wire version.
jib

 

[television]

I would suggest MAF again, just a hunch, is your MAF the old hot wire version.
jib

The MAF does not effect idle

 

[jibcl500]

Car will still idle with a faultly MAF agreed but it wouldnt be as smooth as a car with a healthy MAF.

jib

 

[kth286]

rod

you have the type of Lambda with a heater inside it - so you have that heater circuit.

then you have the actual signal and feedback circuit - so that make two very different and independent circuits.

Do both circuits share earth wires or is the earth via the body of the probe ? I will have to look that up.

But if I recall it has 4 wires . Does yours ??????

I will try and get back to you.

 

[mr rosher]

rod

you have the type of Lambda with a heater inside it - so you have that heater circuit.

then you have the actual signal and feedback circuit - so that make two very different and independent circuits.

Do both circuits share earth wires or is the earth via the body of the probe ? I will have to look that up.

But if I recall it has 4 wires . Does yours ??????

I will try and get back to you.

yes kth286 mine has four wires, i don,t if this helps, but when i got this last year i could only buy the universal lambda as my main dealer was out of stock

 

[kth286]

rod

The voltage signal at correct mixture should be 450mV.

If it is less ie. 100 - 400mV it is too lean

and if it is more ie. 500 - 1000mV it is too rich.

The heater current draw should be 1.2 - 2.2 Amps

The engine needs to be running and hot.

 

[mr rosher]

rod

The voltage signal at correct mixture should be 450mV.

If it is less ie. 100 - 400mV it is too lean

and if it is more ie. 500 - 1000mV it is too rich.

The heater current draw should be 1.2 - 2.2 Amps

The engine needs to be running and hot.

thanks for getting back to me, but sorry kth286, when it comes to testing electrics im not that good, how do i check these and on which wire /wires should i be getting this reading, do you think i should just change the lambda
or is it possible that the maf has gone again as jibcl500 has said, to be honest at this point im a bit confused as what to do, thanks again rod