Are we nieve in thinking mercedes quality is second to none

[david arthur]

none is the operative word.When one thinks of mercedes you think of bomb proof reliabilty the best built car money can buy engineering second to none whats gone wrong.? after all we are talking of a premium product with prices to match Are we expected to put up with second rate build quility sold on a reputation long gone.?At one time if you bought a german product you were buying ouality not any more the japanese now hold that crown.If Lexus,Honda,Toyota,Nissan,can do it why not mercedes gone are the days when you can trade on past reputations you only have to look at Austin Rover to see that. What do other members think.

 

[jimmymack]

I think that the running gear and engine are good (so far), but the bodywork has been built to a cost rather than to a standard in my opinion. Referring back to previous posts, it seems that the build quality declined in the mid 90's as Mercedes tried to be price competitive against the likes of BMW. However, I have also heard that they have now started galvanising the bodywork to bring the standards back up, but they also need to take all the dealers into a room and teach them the value of customer service.

 

[television]

Car electrics built in Europe are still out dated compaired to the far east, it is not only the build it is the thinking behind the systems and the way the end result is put into use. I do not know any car with the same problems that MB have over a simple battery charge or change, so far I have found 26 different methods, depending on the model to change a MB battery.

Malcolm

 

[jberks]

No, the quality isn't second to none. It's not that MB has dropped that dramatically (though it certainly has dropped and there have a been a few well documented screw ups in that area) but others have improved so our expectations are far higher now too. Remember, when this reputation was formed, people used to come out of their houses on days like today, armed with cans of damp start to get their new allegros and marinas going. A car that always started when you flicked the key was considered exceptional.

When I tinker with my new merc there is very little that I look at and think 'thats a bit crap' or 'ill though out'. It's not surprising that in these days of complex electronics, that the Japanese have the edge - after all, that's where they excel. However, in pure driver enjoyment and 'feel', there still isn't anything to touch a Merc. Why else would the bigger lexuses be so blatantly based on the S class!

In terms of trouble free motoring, there are better, but its a matter of small percentages, most of us are happily on the road for the vast majority of the time, and when we are, there's nothing to touch a Merc.

 

[johnmc]

They are good to drive, nice feeling for sure. But, bottom line is that the cost of producing one is no more expensive than producing a similar model from Vauxhall or Ford, but we have to pay well over odds for the purchase price. So, for me if you gauge purely on quality they ain't worth it. Are you willing to have a few problems for a star on the hood? Not for everyone then.

John

 

[david arthur]

Are we nieve it thinking the three pointed star is the best thing since sliced bread

Your quite right we are being ripped of on the pricing of merc's we pay a lot of money for that three pointed star. And like you i dont think it will cost much more to build say a C'class as against a ford Mondeo but i bet the mondeo will be more reliable and the service cost will be half.My last car a BMW 5 series 525i SE 1989 seemed to be in a different league where build quality was concerned and that engine superb after 70,000 miles nothing went wrong nothing dropped of and the paint work was as good as the day i bought it.If the new shape BMW was like the style of my E class i would have bought it like a shot.After all this i still like my E class but come on mercedes dont expect your customers to road soak your cars they should have been done already after all how many recalls has the E class had on brakes already.

 

[Stevie A]

Seems to me that MB is a victim of the globalisation of the motor trade. I think there is a lot to do with paying for the branding though, it's just like paying for a more expensive branded jumper or aftershave - it's all about the label / badge. The only thing now is that you have Chrysler essentially reducing build quality through cost cuts, as didn't they say that they thought Mercs were overbuilt?

 

[littlebrooklyn]

At one time if you bought a german product you were buying ouality

I think a lot of German brands, not just car manufactuerrs, have been overtaken by other countries in recent years.

I don't know much about cars, but I do know something about domestic appliances, being female, and I can tell you quite categorically that manufacturers like Bosch, which are still at the high end of the price range, have really come down not only in the quality of the their goods, but also the reliability.

I've gone through endless Bosch washing machines and had my very expensive freezer break down twice, whereas before I had a very cheap Zanussi one for 17yrs that never let me down.

 

[cubicincubi]

I turned down a 97 e class when i was looking for one 4 years ago because it just felt cheap and nasty, didnt feel 'on the road' really - since then have not bothered much with the newer models, though some of them do look very nice - build quality and sturdyness is imho what mb was susposed to be all about - looks kinda should come after that. In the last 5 years theres been lots of fancy looking new cars about which suits the hairdresser and middle executive trendy city office workers who think posing is more important than bombproof motoring. I feel laughed at when i say i've got a merc as I feel I have to apologise (i'm forgiven though when I explain its a boring estate).

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Some very interesting comments have been made about this subject and to add my opinion I will have to bring the pound in your pocket into play.

My dear departed 300TE was bought new in 1988 for the princely sum of £27,000 with a very modest spec. The only extras being an electric sunroof and headlamp w/wipe.

My E320CDi was bought in 2000 for the sum of £36,000 with almost a full spec. (the only bits missing being COMAND and heated seats). Before extras the sale price was about £33K.

The purchase price of the two cars tell a story. The real price of MB cars has come down and consequently I don't expect the same quality of manufacture. Modern technology is also a drain on manufacturers resources, and if you want to lead the field as the Germans seem to, a fair proportion of your cars will malfunction in some way. its partly the cost of progress.

My conclusions on quality are, don't buy new models until they have been in production for a couple of years and always keep an open mind to the fact that you may have to spend £1K on replacing a major item ocassionally.

Hopefully then you can sit back and enjoy the ride, I certainly am.

Incidentally I am in no way defending MB (I don't think you can) but just trying to add a little subjectivety to the situation.

 

[television]

There are cars, and there are cars. Most new cars are built to a good standard these days,just take a look at the way the doors fit 3mm gap all the way round,paint good, inside nicely finished but not to the MB standard.
My best friends S 320 is almost Rolls Royce quality inside, the finish is supurb.'
its beautiful, A friend near me has just got his new C Class, it drives like a dream, the finish is perfect inside and out. Today I took a Renault Luguna for a drive as the owner is away,I did not like the seats, squab too short,no surport, the interior detail was poor, everthing all fitted ok, no where near MB quality.
Back in the nineties you could buy a good H FI system for £1,000 to go 5% better you would need to spend £5,000 to go 2% better you need to spend £15 000 and so it went till you spent £150,000. Cars go the same way, MB's are like a baby Rolls Royce, and it does cost to be that.
Most of us here enjoy our cars, and for the best part we only get the few with problems here. things do go wrong,the more on the car the more to go wrong, Im happy.

Malcolm

 

[andy_k]

I don't think we are naieve to expect great quality from Mercedes but where I do think many people are naieve is that they buy a C Class for what is basically Mondeo/Vectra/Saab 9-5 money and then complain that it's not as good as a 15 year old Merc which cost the same price as the average house when it was built.

Of course it's not but then it would be unreasonable to expect it to be.

Cars these days are built down to a price dictated by accountants and market forces not up a specification by engineers. If they were I doubt you'd see half as many Mercs on the road and many of the members here wouldn't be able to afford what would be a very expensive luxury car

As the old saying goes.....you want quality? then you gotta pay for it

Andy

 

[HowieP]

I am reading a lot about the "quality from the far east". This cannot be taken as read, you are lucky if you purchase a car made by anyone that does not let you down. I have scrapped one Mitsubishi already as it became uneconomical to repair and no-one could satisfactorily fix it and I have another whose faults have rendered it unusable for over a year despite the fact it was recalled in Japan for a major brake system fault (grey import admittedly). My wife bought a 29 year old 107 350 last year, 240000 on the clock, lovely, so I've just got a tatty old 124 260 to run around in, great. Even my 89 Maserati drives when I want it and these are slated as just about the worst cars ever built. Moral of this? All modern cars are constricted by regulation and human engineered market forces that tell us if we have not got this, that or whatever then you ain't good enough. Take your driving back to the basics of what you need and exactly what makes you personally tick. Food for thought!

 

[jberks]

I am starting to wonder about the relationship between quality and reliability.
For example, take the Toyota Pick-up that they trashed on Top Gear. No-one could argue with its reliability, but quality?

I accept that Japanese cars are statistically the most reliable. However, I sit in one and the quality in terms of materials, fit and finish when compared to my merc is pretty awful. The reality is that better leather, plastics, wood etc give a vastly better ownership feeling, cost more to produce and after a few years will be in far better condition, but none of this adds to reliability and as we expect it anyway, we don't allow for it in the surveys.

Look under the bonnet of any merc, be it a 124 or a 211, and you will find carefully designed boxes, covers and seals to ensure that no moisture or dirt gets to the critical components. Open the boot and look at the care they have given to the trim, soundproofing etc even in there. My mercs are the only cars I have driven where, when you open them at night, the inside lights up properly. Most cars give us a cheap dim glow from a 5w bulb. Enough to see where to put the key, but not exactly welcoming. Again, a Jap car doesn't tend to have these touches, but what they do have will serve perfectly well for 6 years or so. Hence they are classed as reliable and by inference, better quality. After 12 years however, the lights don't work too well, little gremlins start to creep in, the trim creaks, squeaks and rattles, the seats sag, the boot seals aren't as effective as they were, the engine rattles a bit, there is a tired plastic smell etc but we expect this as its getting on a bit. Then get into a 6 year old Merc. Sure the wheel is a bit shiny, but other than that, its pretty much as new.

From what I can tell, (excluding the tin worm debacle which they recognise and have back tracked on) the problems most of us have had, have come from a reduction in testing. In the old days, they would test new mercs far more thoroughly than other manufacturers. When they took that away, it left us to do the testing. Hence an 02 211 was a nightmare when new whereas an 05 one is fairly trouble free. Same car, same materials, same factory and in reality, same quality, just with more of the wrinkles ironed out.