Auto boxes have I opened a tin of worms

[television]

Seeiing that some folk are having problems with the sealed for life boxes, and getting the dealer to do the work.

Under the Active Service Assyst MB change the gearbox fluid at certain milages or time.

On a 203752 for instance, with the 772.6 gearbox, the gearbox fluid is changed at 60k km, MB say that the gearbox should be flushed if the fluid is burnt or beading.

On a 220 the oil fluid is changed at 60k km,and as above.

It would seem that the is one set of rules when the car is under Active Service Assyst and they are paying, and another when you have to pay your self.

I will leave you to come to your own conclusion.

Malcolm

 

[Ultymate]

I wonder whether the fact that some of the later ones have no drain on the torque converter has anything to do with this stance by the dealers ie it makes a lot more difficult if not impossible to do a complete oil change on the transmission :???:

 

[television]

This applies to every car in the range,I just gave two examples.
I have just looked up mine,and its the same thing, and I have no drain plug.

When I go to the normal A,B service that I pay for, there is no mention of the fluid change.


malcolm

 

[aa1]

I did my own oil change and put 8 litres of fresh oil into the g/box. Made a world of difference to the changes. AA

 

[eric242340]

Auto boxes

In the 12 years ive worked in China I must have rebuilt a hundred or more Benz transmissions. At first simply thought the heat was causing them to fail. After all this is the sub tropics - Heat/Humidity. But whils looking at the title of this thread, something dawned on me. I have only rebuilt ten BMW boxes and at one time BMW and Mercedes were using ZF boxes. So now im really begining to wonder why the Benz transmission have such a high failure rate in this country. I don hear of this happening anywhere else?

 

[Rory]

It would seem that the is one set of rules when the car is under Active Service Assyst and they are paying, and another when you have to pay your self.

Are you suggesting that Mercedes like to have the oil changed if they're paying for the service, in order to minimise the chance of auto box failure? But if you're paying yourself, then they're not bothered if the box fails?

In my experience of service inclusive type deals, the manufacturers usually do the minimum possible. Certainly in the US, it's been reported that since free servicing ended on MB's a couple of years ago, they've now modified the service sheets to call for an ATF change at 40K miles.

I've never heard of Active Service Assyst - is that another name for ServicePlus?

 

[television]

Are you suggesting that Mercedes like to have the oil changed if they're paying for the service, in order to minimise the chance of auto box failure? But if you're paying yourself, then they're not bothered if the box fails?

In my experience of service inclusive type deals, the manufacturers usually do the minimum possible. Certainly in the US, it's been reported that since free servicing ended on MB's a couple of years ago, they've now modified the service sheets to call for an ATF change at 40K miles.

I've never heard of Active Service Assyst - is that another name for ServicePlus?

Hi Rory, As far as I can see it is the first thing That MB do when a car goes over to Service Assyst.

The figure you give of 40k miles is the same as my data for 60k km, so that fits.

I bought this up as many people are finding it hard to get the fluid changed, indeed the dealer argues and say it is better not to change it.

So yes I am saying that MB do it while under assyst and they are paying, but when we are paying, it is hard to get it done.

Malcolm

 

[gasman59]

Hi Malcom:

At risk of beating this to death, I am be concerned with trusting my dealer to do this correctly, super clean, etc. especially in light of the "Not Needed" stance.

Do you know if my 2000 E320 has the torque converter drain?

If not, is there any benefit from draining the pan, replacing the filter, and refilling with fresh fluid? I know some old will remain in the system.

Do you have the torque spec for the pan bolts?

I am considering doing it myself as I am a good mechanic and will surely keep things spotless.

I assume this is the MB synthetic stuff. I figure I could measure the drained amount and replace the same.

Thanks for all of tour insight and help.

Ron Young

 

[Blobcat]

Hi Malcom:

At risk of beating this to death, I am be concerned with trusting my dealer to do this correctly, super clean, etc. especially in light of the "Not Needed" stance.

Do you know if my 2000 E320 has the torque converter drain?

If not, is there any benefit from draining the pan, replacing the filter, and refilling with fresh fluid? I know some old will remain in the system.

Do you have the torque spec for the pan bolts?

I am considering doing it myself as I am a good mechanic and will surely keep things spotless.

I assume this is the MB synthetic stuff. I figure I could measure the drained amount and replace the same.

Thanks for all of tour insight and help.

Ron Young

Pls have a look at the attached thread http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=16659 post No.19 confirms that the torque converter drain plug was dropped in 2nd production month of 1999. I had the 4ltrs changed and a new filter.

 

[seabadger]

So what is the perceived wisdom? Should you change the transmission fluid and when?

My first big Nissan died from Auto box problems at 130,000 miles. I bought it at 2 years old with 25,000 miles (it may have been clocked). I never changed the transmission fluid for 4 years until it started to make a noise in third gear then I took it to a Nissan dealer who said they had no experience of Autobox problems and advised taking it to a transmission specialist.

Here I got the fluid changed (about 8 litres) and they showed me the iron filings on the drain plug and the dirty fluid. On the dip stick it looked clear red, but in the bulk it was cloudy and dirty. Although the dealers never mention changing the fluid the specialist put it this way - would you consider driving with the same engine oil for 125,000 miles?

With a recon auto box costing in excess of £1000 at the time it was time to chop in the old Maxima. I part exed for a 2 year old 3.0 litre QX, 47,000miles and I insisted they changed the transmission fluid. I never changed it again and the car ran sweet as a nut for 5 years. I made a young man very happy when I almost gave the car away with 170,000 on the clock still capable of 130mph but never having had the suspension for that sort of speed!

With 87,000 miles on my W211 and thinking I'll probably keep it for some years I ought to be prudent. But then transmission fluid isn't cheap and it's a Mercedes so it probably won't be so easy? Don't the dealers suck out the oils and fluids these days?

 

[Blobcat]

As per the link in my post above they drop the sump.

 

[seabadger]

OK Blobcat thanks for that. Thats a brilliant posting with all the photos. Is my auto box the same as that, but without the torque coverter drain plug?

 

[eric242340]

Auto

This is a very good thread and thank you Malcolm for starting it. Despite what Mercedes say, any transmission in the word - 40k to 60k check your oil. Im not going to teach you how to suck eggs. But a simple guidline is : engine running. pull out the trans dipstick - 1 is the level correct.? 2 what is the colour? 3 does it smell burnt? If 2 or 3 is not correct then investigate further. 2 Should be white or red, if brown/black - problems. if 3, change the oil and filter soonest and pray the damage is limited.

 

[Blobcat]

OK Blobcat thanks for that. Thats a brilliant posting with all the photos. Is my auto box the same as that, but without the torque coverter drain plug?

Yes

 

[seabadger]

Eric,

There's no dipstick on my car. I pulled off a cap at the top of what looks like a dipstick but nothing there! I had to buy a new security tab which broke when I pulled off the cap- only 40 pence or so - but why is it there?

Mercedes don't make it easy for DIY people!

The ATF remains a hidden mystery - you can't see it, or smell it.

 

[Blobcat]

The security tab is there as it was supposed to be sealed for life. The description for the dipstick is on the above link.

 

[seabadger]

Straight forward job then!

 

[seabadger]

Sealed for life if you do 6000 miles per year? And change the car every few years.

The message seems to be probably every 60,000 miles to be on the safe side. That way you get to look at, see the state of the gearbox and change the filter.

Very interesting thread. Do you think the new CVT or seven speed Autoboxes will require any less servicing?

 

[eric242340]

Auto

Eric,

There's no dipstick on my car. I pulled off a cap at the top of what looks like a dipstick but nothing there! I had to buy a new security tab which broke when I pulled off the cap- only 40 pence or so - but why is it there?

Mercedes don't make it easy for DIY people!

The ATF remains a hidden mystery - you can't see it, or smell it.

Mercedes have made it a rule that only trained professionals can do this, yet another obstruction to the amature. But you can buy the garage dipstick almost everywhere.

 

[television]

The oil is often sucked out now, but the sump still has to come off. at least you can see the residue thats left behind.

It still just bugs me why it is done at the start of Assyst,, but sealed for life for those not on Assyst, its almost like saying this way round, its the best for MB, little trouble while on Assist,for MB and if your box goes wrong when you are not on Assyst hard luck,it would not have happened, had you been on Assyst, or you should have had Assyst.

Why do not MB come clean on these one sided issues, BMW did with the ZF box.
Even on othere issues I am finding out that you cant ask a dealer to do certain things in other area's,even if you are paying, I tried to get something checked and they did not do it,yet its my car, thats something for another thread.

Malcolm