Bad Design

[Jensen]

Maybe a bit picky but I don't like these positions for driving controls:-

1. The Horn crap on the steering wheel would be better at the end of the indicator stick. OK providing ALL your driving is straight!!

2. Head Lights button a crap dial like on Ford and Vauxhall to the right of the steering wheel, would be better as a twist switch again on the indicator stick.

Mine is C250 TD so don't know if Merc have changed this.

Any news/views

 

[paulcallender]

Having the horn on the steering wheel is the logical place for it. It doesn't get much simpler when you need it in a hurry. If you pushed the steering wheel and something else happened, what would you want to happen?

Mercs seem to get by with one stalk (okay, 2, there is another for the cruise control on mine); both on the right hand side. The twist is for the wipers on mine, so the headlights have to be somewhere else. You don't use the switch that often (compared to the wipers) so a dash mounted switch is fair game.

I guess having the left side of the steering wheel free, is a hangover from the days when column changes were around. I have seen pics of older Mercs with column change and a front bench seat or a facility to seat 3 people in the front. Very cool.....

The only complaint I have on mine is that the auto starts in 2nd and can be kicked down to 1st. I would prefer it to start in 1st!

1990 230TE

 

[pascal]

The more modern ones come on when the light gets low.
All cars I think have there horn on the middle of the steering, because it is quicker than from a stalk.

I have a rented Nissan at the moment, and everything bar the brakes seem to be on two stalks. I have it a week and I still cannot get it right.
My wiper seem to come on every time I want to turn.

The reason that indicators always used to be on the right on a RHD car was that when you are turning you are likely to have your Left hand on the gear lever,and you can flick them with the fingers of your right hand, just like your W124.

All modern cars seem to have them on the wrong side.

Another thing that annoys me about modern cars is the window controls on the door (cost saver). Most people keep there right hands on the steering wheel at all times (thats why there is an arm rest) so that the left hand can be used for all the other jobs like stereo, gears, AND ELETRIC WINDOWS. You dont see many controls on the right, so why windows.

The Light switch you are referring to takes a lot of juice, and is a huge piece of former mercedes engineering just like the heater controls. Take them out and see. And Please do not compare with ford or Opel.

All the things that you mention are are what makes MB great and are the things I like about them. If you do not like them thats y0ur progative

So then my advice is, sell it, and buy a Nissan Almeria, and you'll down and depressed, and we'll all be walking round with a smile on our face.

PASCAL

 

[paulcallender]

Just as a matter of interest Jensen, how long have you had your Mercedes? Less than a month? You'll get used to all the controls being in the 'wrong' position for you.....

 

[Slaphead]

I find MB controls to be the most ergonomic and intuitive of all cars... certainly jap cars are the opposite way around and work well enough when you get used to them but all the things you describe are, to me anyway, very good design. Why would anybody want a horn on the end of a stalk? (keep it clean!)... I seem to remember some car I drove for a while had this "feature" and it was just plain silly.

 

[190]

Maybe a bit picky but I don't like these positions for driving controls:-

1. The Horn crap on the steering wheel would be better at the end of the indicator stick. OK providing ALL your driving is straight!!

2. Head Lights button a crap dial like on Ford and Vauxhall to the right of the steering wheel, would be better as a twist switch again on the indicator stick.

Mine is C250 TD so don't know if Merc have changed this.

Any news/views

Why did you buy the car then if all the controls are crap , did you not notice this when you had a test drive or did you just buy a merc to keep up with the neighbours

 

[merc engineer]

Jensen you should have bought a metro all the controls would be fine for you.
Why buy a car you don;t like
For £12 you could have bought a mercedes star and fitted it on the Metro and then you would be happy.

 

[jberks]

Merc don't change anything in the cabin unless its to improve it. Horns on indicators were around in the 60s and 70s when it was too expensive to put them on the wheel. Merc's have always had them on the wheel as this is the best place for it. Vauxhalls have little buttons on the wheel, tricky to get to in an emergency, whereas you never miss in the Merc. No one puts the horn on the stalk any more as its a silly place for it.

The headlight switch has also been unchanged for decades, again because it's the best designed headlight switch of any car I have ever driven. You can't get it wrong and you can't accidentally leave your fog lights on either. You can't have rear fogs on without front ones (logical) etc.. Several manufacturers have started to copy the Merc design so it cant be that bad.

 

[mlc]

Some topics on here I really enjoy reading - and this is one of them. A guy comments on the layout of the switchs etc and offers the ultimate insult - its crap like a vauxhall or ford. Other people seem to take exception - and suggest he should have chosen better, did he not take a test drive etc. basically because he doesnt accept that his MB is the best thing ever he must be an idiot. I have bad news for you ladies and gents - MB's are not automatically the best.
The lights switch is a good example - the switch on our 72 SL is the same as on our 97 SLK, and a similar design is used on lots of Fords from the mid 90's. That doesnt mean that they are crap because Ford use the design, it means Ford took 20 years to catch up. But this shouldnt be taken as proof that MB is the best, because MB is a generation behind on ergodynamics and essential "goodies". Our SLK was a replacement for a Puma - a lowly Ford - but where is the heated windscreen on the SLK?, never mind the ride quality or the Ford traction control that was light years better than the SLK. This was enough to ensure that MrsC, who normally cant be prised out of her beloved SLK, elected to use my Mondeo during the recent icy weather - I have had a heated windscreen for the last 18 years! If we move on to comparing top of the range Mondeos / Vectras to equivalent priced MB's then I think most forum members would be suprised. In terms of quality / comfort and especially toys - the MBs come out a poor last.

Mark.

 

[ant500sl]

A good point well made mlc.

Nice to see some well thought out and reasoned posts appearing from time to time, rather than the I'm right you're wrong variety.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

Well said mlc. I have to agree with you there too. Other areas MB fail badly on are customer service, reliability and warranty. I got a nice reminder a week before Christmas, took my 95 Peugeot 405 for a 95K service, still use main dealer where I bought it new.....got full service, replaced all the brake hoses, new brake fluid, replaced indicator flasher unit......service with a smile, lovely to see you etc.....just over ?500, about £360. The thing is you know the guys have checked everything, driven the car and checked evereything is right before car comes back.....washed and polished. They phone you to confirm your car will be ready.....try getting that from a Merc dealer, it does not happen.

You need to be a tarzan to use the horn in the E......its on the steering wheel but needs so much pressure. Mercs [W210] rust like hell, long way behind others.

Why do Merc still insist on spare wheels that need different studs? the Peugeot has alloys with a steel spare, but you use the same wheel studs. The spare wheel hangs under thge car too so you dont have to unload everything to get it out. Try a W211 estate....under the floor, take everything out...no thanks.

A heated windscreen is an asset, but why not on a Merc?

I must admit, a change from a Peugeot 405 GTX TD to a new E320 CDI was a bit of a shock, the Merc was nowhere near the quality I expected. It had problems from the beginning, simple ones but the dealers were so bad they were left unrepaired and then MB main dealers tried to argue they were out of warranty. It sure feels solid but this does not mean reliability. Having kept the Peugeot it has proven far more reliable than the Merc.

 

[jberks]

Before we get to slagging off our pride and joys again, Agreed, these days Mercs are harder to justify. Merc quality is down on 15 years ago, though so is price, and everyone else is catching up. Whilst there is little room for improvement on a 123/4, the fords and vauxhalls of the same era were crap by comparison. I think Merc are a bit like M&S, everyone has caught up, leaving them nowhere to go.

Mercs still have a feel that no-one else can replicate, which is why I suspect that despite the niggles,cost and dealer issues we all still run one. I recently had a new Audi A6 for a day and it felt like a very nice quality, well designed and constructed, well equipped ordinary car, the merc, despite being 5 years old still feels special and a class above in comparison, and having had it for the past 4 years and 50,000 miles, the wear is still inperceptible. So much so, I can't bring myself to trade it in. Yes it rusts in a few minor spots, a major design cock up, but until Merc stop paying to put this right, or the rust becomes visible, I am not going to get too critical on this point.

Basically on the switchgear and general design, Merc didn't used to change for fashion, only for pure engineering reasons, and after so many years, they had just about perfected them, hence many of their designs are now found in 'lesser' makes. Unfortunatley, with new gadgets appearing so quickly - tv, sat nav, climate etc, some designs are having to change to accomodate them, and this they are struggling with. I suspect that as they didn't redesign stuff for so long, they are having to re-learn how - haven't merc opened several design and user testing studios recently for this purpose, and if the new A class is anything to go on, its starting to have the desired result. Quality up drastically.

By the way, I believe a heated screen is available on Mercs, though possibly not in the UK.

 

[Mondorich]

No one puts the horn on the stalk any more as its a silly place for it.

Except Land Rover ... my '03 Defender has the horn on the indicator stalk and it's fine, but I'm not saying it's any better or worse than if it were on the steering wheel.

 

[jon_harley]

1. The Horn crap on the steering wheel would be better at the end of the indicator stick. OK providing ALL your driving is straight!!

Exactly how I feel. Try to hit the horn while going round a roundabout and it's not in the same place as when you're going straight! Plus not lit up in the dark so there is basically no chance of finding it fast enough. Plus very close to all the other controls on the steering wheel so a big chance of hitting them as well/instead.

The horn should be on the same stalk as the headlights, since sounding the horn is for letting people who may not have seen you know you are there, and flashing them helps them to locate you. So horn and headlights go together logically in a way that screenwash and headlights do not.

The stupid location of the horn is actually the one and only niggle I have with my Merc after over a year of driving it. I find all the other controls exceptionally well designed and thought out except for this.

 

[jberks]

I have always felt the best place was on the wheel hub, as
a) its a larger surface area to hit in an emergency
b) you have a better chance of staying in contact with it if you are steering to avoid something.
c) You can operate it whilst keeping your hand on the wheel and steering.

The key advantage of the stalk mount is the ability to operate the main beam at the same time, to make yourself more obvious. :idea: Perhaps horns should be wired to the main beam and we could have the best of both worlds :? .

 

[MB partsman]

1. The Horn crap on the steering wheel would be better at the end of the indicator stick. OK providing ALL your driving is straight!!

Exactly how I feel. Try to hit the horn while going round a roundabout and it's not in the same place as when you're going straight! Plus not lit up in the dark so there is basically no chance of finding it fast enough. Plus very close to all the other controls on the steering wheel so a big chance of hitting them as well/instead.

The horn should be on the same stalk as the headlights, since sounding the horn is for letting people who may not have seen you know you are there, and flashing them helps them to locate you. So horn and headlights go together logically in a way that screenwash and headlights do not.

The stupid location of the horn is actually the one and only niggle I have with my Merc after over a year of driving it. I find all the other controls exceptionally well designed and thought out except for this.

im confused... if it was on a stalk i'd agree, but when the horn push is in the wheel it IS always in the same place, ive NEVER seen a stalk follow the wheel as it turns!
i have a vauxhall and ill admit its hard to find the buttons, but on a merc? no problem

 

[mlc]

Sorry Jberks if you thought I was slagging off MB's - far from it. In our family the SLK is known as the "dogs undercarriage", because MrsC is far too polite to call it the dogs bollocks! Our 1972 SL is a dream to drive and still turns heads. I am sadly old enough to remember what the fords / vauxhalls etc were like 20 and 30 years ago, rusting away at 2 years old, scarp at 5 years old! Your comparision with M+S is very good, MB used to be head and shoulders above the rest, now lots of other people have nearly caught up. When you compare MB with Ford you have to remember cost, the most expensive Fords are a little over £20K, almost entry level for MB. If we want to look at the more expensive MB's you have to compare them with the more expensive Fords - also known as Jaguars and Aston Martins - both of which (in my opinion) compare very well with the equivelent MB's. For those that say that Jags and Astons aren't Fords - just ask the Jag workers who they think is running the joint in Coventry!

Mark.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

I have to ask! How many times do you need your horn to decide that it is badly positioned? I had to go and press mine to find out. to be honest I cant remember which car i have had where by it had the horn on a stalk. I did once own a mini but that was absolut crap and the brakes didnt work very well (the rear shoes leaked) and it used a litre of oil a week. not sure if its horn worked or if ever i found it.

RVY 242P if anyone has it? and if anyone DOES have it please scrap it.

So my point is that either you must live in an area which gets infested by terrible drivers whilst you are out in your car and you need to inform them of your presence, or perhaps you are a taxi driver, in which case can you get out of the car and use the sodding door bell so as you dont wake the whole street up!

 

[jberks]

Speaking as an ex cabbie - if you get out of the car to ring a bell, someone hits you over the head and nicks your cash. Cabs = piggy banks to certain members of our community, so they go to a random address in a poorly lit suburb, ring a cab on their mobile and wait, the cab turns up, no one comes out, cabbie get out to knock .....- Life ain't fluffy I'm afraid. I would only knock when I knew the customer. Otherwise it was the horn or nothing. Don't have a go at the cabbie, blame your prat of a neigbour that rings a cab and then goes back to sleep instead of keeping an eye out, or the brain donor in the pub that thinks the cabbie will park up, lock the car and go and search for them in a crowded bar for 20 minutes, when they don't know what they look like, and all for 2 lousy quid and a 10p tip . If you want to know how dick like the public really are, drive a cab for a week! Those guys deserve a medal.
rant over.

I still think the wheel is the best place!

 

[paulcallender]

Don't the older E-class make great taxis?