Bad interior design on W210 estate

[rallen]

(1) The gearstick is very badly designed. There is no easy way to know

the difference between N and R, only a small notch separates them. On my

V70 there is no way you can go to R unless you press a button to release

a latch and the same applied to the Ford Scorpio. I narrowly escaped a

bad accident because of this bad design. Car was loaded in my driveway

and we were ready to leave for a journey to France, when my 6 year old

(Luke) remembered he had forgotten to take a toy. I pushed the gear stick forward

out of habit to go to N (same as on the V70), and also engaged the foot

brake. I stepped out of the car, went back to the house to get toy. In

the meantime my wife also stepped out of the car and opened the rear door

to adjust Luke's seat belt. I tried to get into the driving seat as my

wife was adjusting the seat belt. Inadvertently my left foot got jammed

on the accelerator pedal as I was stepping in. The car was in reverse and

not in Neutral, as I had thought, and made a leap backwards, the open

rear door hitting my wife on the legs and almost knocking her over, while

I managed to unwegde my foot from the accelerator pedal and hit the

brakes (after a moment of extreme surprise). The car came within inches

of the wall of the house and thankfully my wife was not hurt. The foot

brake did not prevent the car from moving, although I suspect the same

would apply to any car with a powerful engine. In short the gearstick

needs to change so that R cannot be engaged so easily and accidentally.




(2) Another bad design is the placing all those switches around the

gearstick. I had the ESP on and off , accidentally, as items were placed

on that area, for example bottle of water, half eaten sandwich, cigarette

lighter adaptor and even Luke's hands and feet! There should be no

switches where people naturally rest their hands or place objects.

Talking about the layout of switches and controls, it seems random and

idiotic to me. On the dash you have the rear windsceeen wipers, central

locking, further down you have the rear screen demister, some idiotic A/C

controls (how do I turn the AC on? How do I turn recycling on and LEAVE

it there?) and finally at the bottom you have the folding mirrors, the

ESP, the Proximity sensors and all the window switches. I would not mind

two rows of dashboard switches than this idiotic arrangement.

To top it off, they have placed the front windscreen wiper on the same

control as the headlights, so you accidentally flash your headlights when

all you were trying to do is clean the windscreen...





(3) Internal lights. I am trying to lock the car using the remote and want all

interior lights off. I do not care if Luke had left the lights on in the

back, or if some front lights are on, I want everything off, I am locking

the car for the night. I am outside the car and really do not want to

step back inside and start fidling with front and back light switches and

with opening/closing doors and trying to guess when all lights will

actually switch off when I step outside and lock the car. I really cannot

believe how idiotic this system is.


(4) Driver's seat: has no lumbar support adjustment - luckily we had some small cushions with us.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Just because its different to your previous cars doesn't mean its a bad design.

I have also owned a V70, I've never managed to put the car in reverse instead of neutral (why did you do that anyway? Should have left the handbrake on)

The footbrake will always be more powerful than the engine. If it isn't, yours is faulty or incorrectly applied.

You shouldn't put fluids near the gear lever. Any spillages will damage the switches under the gear lever, and you won't be able to drive.

Internal lights will fade a few seconds after locking. I have no problem with it, never have.

 

[maddog]

what a rant!!

Have to say the N thing has never been an issue for me the car is never in neutral only ever park, drive or reverse. I suggest you do the same as you cant take the car OUT of park without having you foot on the footbrake, having the engine running , kids in the car and the car in neutral or what you THINK is neutral is pure madness.

Easy solution to the switches "dont put crap round the gearlever", you have plenty of storage space, more than the volvo

Easy solution to the lights is dont let your kids fiddle with them.


Me thinks you should go back to a Volvo as they are designed for Americans who like everything spelled out for them

Volvos which have performance models which have 250hp and fwd (great idea) and a seatbelt alarm that nags you everytime you get in the car

 

[Rory]

The gear lever is your main problem, because you could have killed your wife. If you had, then you'd probably be looking at Manslaughter charge.

To be honest it's inexcusable to get out of the car and leave the engine running while there are children in the car. Especially one like yours that turns lights on and climbs all over switches.

I also never use Neutral - if I stop then I shift into Park.

 

[jberks]

To get from D to N you push forward. To get to R you have to move the lever (left or right I can't remember). I have never accidentally got the wrong gear and I also never use N, only Park when stationary. P locks the rear wheels and handbrakes should never be entirely trusted (cables can snap) so if you are out of the car P is the only sensible (safe) choice, no matter what make the car is. Actually I rarely use the hand brake either. P does it all and better.

Floor any car in gear and you will beat the handbrake. It may not move far, but it will move.

You'll be happy to know that the W211 has no switches on the console. Personally I thinks that's a retrograde step as it was nice that the wife could control the back windows too, but not a major issue now they are on my door. ESP etc are now on the vertical part of the console.

how do I turn the AC on? - don't turn it off - ever.
"so you accidentally flash your headlights when all you were trying to do is clean the windscreen" No - never done this either - I have an element of dexterity so can press a button without tugging the whole lever.

Mercs don't follow the crowd so you may be unfamiliar with the controls, but that doesn't make them worse, just different.

 

[clive williams]

T210 Rant

Rallen,

I too have a T210 and have no gripe with the overall design. However, I feel disappointed that MB did not take the time to properly switch the controls over from LHD to RHD - perhaps they couldn't be bothered. My only real gripe is the rear reading lamps, which provide a distracting glow in the rear view mirror as they are in the middle, whereas on the w124 they are perfectly placed on the outside

With regard to the comments on tundra tanks (Volvos) I have always thought it stupid to attempt to apply more than 150 bhp solely through the front wheels of any car.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[rallen]

To get from D to N you push forward. To get to R you have to move the lever (left or right I can't remember). I have never accidentally got the wrong gear and I also never use N, only Park when stationary. P locks the rear wheels and handbrakes should never be entirely trusted (cables can snap) so if you are out of the car P is the only sensible (safe) choice, no matter what make the car is. Actually I rarely use the hand brake either. P does it all and better.

Floor any car in gear and you will beat the handbrake. It may not move far, but it will move.

You'll be happy to know that the W211 has no switches on the console. Personally I thinks that's a retrograde step as it was nice that the wife could control the back windows too, but not a major issue now they are on my door. ESP etc are now on the vertical part of the console.

how do I turn the AC on? - don't turn it off - ever.
"so you accidentally flash your headlights when all you were trying to do is clean the windscreen" No - never done this either - I have an element of dexterity so can press a button without tugging the whole lever.

Mercs don't follow the crowd so you may be unfamiliar with the controls, but that doesn't make them worse, just different.

I have a long habit of pushing the gear stick as far as it will go and that gets me into Neutral, guaranteed. On the MB it does the same and it needs a small sideways action to get it to Reverse, as you correctly said, but this small notch is no protection at all, as I have regularly engaged Reverse when I meant Neutral. Other cars have a great button that you need to press to "unlock" the Reverse (and Park) positions.

To activate the windscreen jets you need to depress the lever and it is not hard to push it outwards at the same time. I see no reason for one combined lever, I'd be happy with two to keep functions separate.

I am glad they put all the switches on the vertical part of the console, although you are implying they placed the window controls on the driver's door.

The interior lights will stay on depending on what combination of buttons were pressed beforehand. It'd be nice to have "all lights off" or "lightrs reset" switch, so you can lock and leave the car *quickly*.

Stupid question, but I do not know how to switch the A/C on permanently. It comes on indirectly if you press the Recycle button, but that also goes off after a little while. Ideally I would want A/C on all the time and recycling on until and unless I decide otherwise.

 

[996jimbo]

Just to join in (re. my '98 C class estate):

1. I've always used park so have not had the problem of jumping forward / backward. As an aside I don't have the brake pedal safety measure and can move the lever without pressing the brake, so I don't get out with the engine running if the kids are in the car.

2. I agree that the one steering column stalk switch is not ideal and do worry about flashing whilst squirting the window (though I don't think I ever actually have). And I think the rear wiper should be on a stalk as it is a stretch to the switch on the dash (though probably that's because it is not changed over for RH drive).

3. I've no problems with switches around the gear lever

4. I have been caught out by the internal lights thing and it is a pain if someone has left a light on or say you've turned lights on then stepped out and have to try to work out if the lights are going off or not.

5. Not sure what the problem is with A/c - with mine (C Class) if the EC (EConomy) light is off then the A/c is on, and the recirc is not self cancelling as far as I remember (though I rarely use it).

 

[maddog]

I see no reason for one combined lever, I'd be happy with two to keep functions separate.

but perhaps MB do, on my w210 I have three stalks around my steering wheel if you had you way i would have four!! (cruise, indicator stalk and phone)

I would suggest you get out of the habit of selecting neutral its a bad one, if the car is stopped it should be in park as Jberks said.

 

[jberks]

Stupid question, but I do not know how to switch the A/C on permanently. It comes on indirectly if you press the Recycle button, but that also goes off after a little while. Ideally I would want A/C on all the time and recycling on until and unless I decide otherwise.

No such thing as a stupid question - all are valid.
I suspect the confusion is the odd configuration of the light. Light on = Aircon off. The aircon doesn't work with recirc, hence the light comes on, but recirc is on a timer so the aircon goes back on when released. The idea is that you should keep aircon on at all times to keep the windows clear so the light comes on to warn you that the aircon is off.

The multifunction switch has been on MBs for as long as I can remember, certainly back well into the 70's. Its as MB as the badge so there is a reluctance to change it. As with Maddog , I have 3 stalks already (cruise, stalk and wheel adjuster) another would be unwelcome. I wonder whether yours is worn though and its now too easy to push forward. There should be a reasonable amount of resistance to stop it moving back and forth if thats not what you wanted it to do.

 

[dogsbody]

Firstly the car is fitted with a parking brake largely to satisfy the US market. It is not actually supposed to be used, as all Yanks put the car in 'park' to park it. I have a w124 manual on which I do use the parking brake but never in the W210.. it has got Park and boy does it!
You should get into the habit of always using Park rather than leaving in neutral.
Agree stalk problems on Mercs are confusing. My 124 has it on the right and the 210 on the left, which means that I always reach for the wrong side regardless of which car I am driving, so that my turn signals are always later than they should be. W210 has a plethora of storage bins both in the dash, central console, glovebox and bins in front and back doors... it even has nice net thingys to put bottles in the footwell.
Why would you put stuff on the switch array round the gear lever?

 

[rallen]

but perhaps MB do, on my w210 I have three stalks around my steering wheel if you had you way i would have four!! (cruise, indicator stalk and phone)

I would suggest you get out of the habit of selecting neutral its a bad one, if the car is stopped it should be in park as Jberks said.

There's two levers around the the steering wheel, the multi-function and the cruise control. There are also buttons on the steering wheel to do with the trip computer, radio etc. Both levers are on the left hand side, there is nothing on the right hand side.

 

[rallen]

Why would you put stuff on the switch array round the gear lever?

Because it is a most natural location for putting things, even resting your arm there. On the Volvo the area is much narrower and convex, so that you cannot "naturally" place anything there (it would drop off), but on the MB is much wider and flater, therefore inviting you to put things on it. You may also accidentally hit the switches trying to access the ashtray compartment. In my opinion having switches on horizontal surfaces is a very bad idea because of gravity (unless they are upside down). Eventually something will drop on those switches, be it your cigarette lighter, your walkman, your son's gameboy or your wife's purse.

We also need to consider not the occasional trip but a long journey where you spend 12+ hours in the car, thereby the cabin becoming your living quarters; there will be flasks of coffee, juices, bottles of water, food, purses, gameboys and dvd players, fleeces and jackets, and a number of other items, some of which will naturally find themselves on that console, resting on those switches.

 

[maddog]

There's two levers around the the steering wheel, the multi-function and the cruise control. There are also buttons on the steering wheel to do with the trip computer, radio etc. Both levers are on the left hand side, there is nothing on the right hand side.

You dont have the phone option then (lingatronic??spl?) but i do and no doubt they are other options you can get that use stalks

 

[maddog]

Because it is a most natural location for putting things, even resting your arm there. On the Volvo the area is much narrower and convex, so that you cannot "naturally" place anything there (it would drop off), but on the MB is much wider and flater, therefore inviting you to put things on it. You may also accidentally hit the switches trying to access the ashtray compartment. In my opinion having switches on horizontal surfaces is a very bad idea because of gravity (unless they are upside down). Eventually something will drop on those switches, be it your cigarette lighter, your walkman, your son's gameboy or your wife's purse.

We also need to consider not the occasional trip but a long journey where you spend 12+ hours in the car, thereby the cabin becoming your living quarters; there will be flasks of coffee, juices, bottles of water, food, purses, gameboys and dvd players, fleeces and jackets, and a number of other items, some of which will naturally find themselves on that console, resting on those switches.

Fact is you shouldnt put things round the gear lever, its not for MB for protect people from their own stupidity

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Agreed, things don't just 'naturally' end up around the gear lever - they get there because somebody ignores common sense, and puts them there!

Theres a rather nice handy spot on your lap while you're driving, to place things. You could probably put a carrier bag full of food there, but you wouldn't would you? That would be silly.

You can't accidently 'hit' the switches while getting into the ashtray, unless you've got a severe case of Parkinson's disease. The switches are heavily weighted, and require a good strong push anyway.

Theres loads of space inside a 210, more space than I've had on any of my 7 previous cars. If you choose to put drinks on the centre console, you're just being silly. Buy the 210 cupholder from a dealer, its only £20.

 

[angus falconer]

I agree it's a bit odd that reverse isn't protected.

Also I agree that's it's irritating to have to re-select recirculate every time you start the car. I keep forgetting and getting a car full of stinky black diesel soot from the car in front as a result. Why do diesels not all have soot traps?

Ooops - that's another thread......

 

[rallen]

I agree it's a bit odd that reverse isn't protected.

Also I agree that's it's irritating to have to re-select recirculate every time you start the car. I keep forgetting and getting a car full of stinky black diesel soot from the car in front as a result. Why do diesels not all have soot traps?

Ooops - that's another thread......

According to someone I spoke to, reverse has never been protected with a safety button on mercs?

Even if you remember to turn recirculate on, it will still switch off after a while. Deeply irritating.

 

[rallen]

Agreed, things don't just 'naturally' end up around the gear lever - they get there because somebody ignores common sense, and puts them there!

Theres a rather nice handy spot on your lap while you're driving, to place things. You could probably put a carrier bag full of food there, but you wouldn't would you? That would be silly.

You can't accidently 'hit' the switches while getting into the ashtray, unless you've got a severe case of Parkinson's disease. The switches are heavily weighted, and require a good strong push anyway.

Theres loads of space inside a 210, more space than I've had on any of my 7 previous cars. If you choose to put drinks on the centre console, you're just being silly. Buy the 210 cupholder from a dealer, its only £20.

The centre console is a natural place to put objects you will have to go out of your way to steer clear of all those switches. Yes you are right they are quite firm and not easily pressed, I think the only one we had problems with was the ESP. Things that were resting on them were my water bottle, coffee flask, power adaptor for the DVD players in the back (no cigarette lighter in the back), DVD case, sandwiches, folded up fleeces, fridge basket/bag (that was wedged between two front seats, but occasionally found its way on the console).

When you spend 12+ consecutive hours in the car driving across a country with the family you tend to use the cabin as living quarters and you will get various objects everywhere.

 

[angus falconer]

Even if you remember to turn recirculate on, it will still switch off after a while. Deeply irritating.

Thanks Rallen - I didn't realise it actually turns itself off in transit - that's evem more absurd. No wonder it never seems to be on............ As I live in London and often find myself behind old smokers belching out fumes (or modified new diesels doing the same.....) I really want it in permanantly - I had it on for seven years non stop in my previous two cars.

Once you have the stench in the car it's roo late. Opening the window just gives you another lungful.

As you say, deeply irritating.