Best of the best oil?

[Arudge]

I'm going to take many more words to say the same as LostKiwi!

Been working on my own vehicles and those of friends and relatives for 44yrs now. Between self and Mrs D we've owned well over 80 vehicles ourselves. I've looked after cars over 30yrs old, Land Rovers 40+ years old, tractors 50+ years old and several motorcycles up to 65yrs old.... some of these vehicles having covered in the range 200k-250k miles. All bar two were on original engines.

For that whole period I've only ever used the best priced oil to meet the spec and not been drawn in by marketing. In my experience of all those vehicles engine lubrication has never been a point of failure related to oil quality however I've dealt with two cars one where constantly running at low oil levels and another where not changing for over 30k miles has given rise to significant wear.

So just meet the spec, avoid very short runs, drive sensibly in the warm up cycle and change yearly... then at your car's current mileage and what you say you expect to do the engine should last well into the electric era.

Edit: Re Bob the oil guy. There is a huge amount of reading on his site and a right load of bull (plus some realistic posts now and again) on the associated forum. However to sum up his own articles he says "I'll not be telling you the best brand" and "meeting specifications is REALLY important".

Good all round advice.

Just to add, if i may, the short runs allow condensation to form in the oil and will, in time, turn the oil into a milky mess we used to call mayonnaise, rendering the oil useless. Short runs are therefor best avoided.

 

[Arudge]

That's what I do as well , I'd just like to know how different oils stack up against each other in an easy to understand study .

unfortunately, it's quite a complected subject and every engine is different. And just to complicate things, there is an enormous amount of bull and marketing guff. Stick to the spec.

 

[flowrider]

Good all round advice.

Just to add, if i may, the short runs allow condensation to form in the oil and will, in time, turn the oil into a milky mess we used to call mayonnaise, rendering the oil useless. Short runs are therefor best avoided.

My wife's car only ever does short runs, you should see the mayo in the engine! Last year the car covered slightly over 500 miles between MOT's.

 

[Sylar]

I'm going to take many more words to say the same as LostKiwi!

Been working on my own vehicles and those of friends and relatives for 44yrs now. Between self and Mrs D we've owned well over 80 vehicles ourselves. I've looked after cars over 30yrs old, Land Rovers 40+ years old, tractors 50+ years old and several motorcycles up to 65yrs old.... some of these vehicles having covered in the range 200k-250k miles. All bar two were on original engines.

For that whole period I've only ever used the best priced oil to meet the spec and not been drawn in by marketing. In my experience of all those vehicles engine lubrication has never been a point of failure related to oil quality however I've dealt with two cars one where constantly running at low oil levels and another where not changing for over 30k miles has given rise to significant wear.

So just meet the spec, avoid very short runs, drive sensibly in the warm up cycle and change yearly... then at your car's current mileage and what you say you expect to do the engine should last well into the electric era.

Edit: Re Bob the oil guy. There is a huge amount of reading on his site and a right load of bull (plus some realistic posts now and again) on the associated forum. However to sum up his own articles he says "I'll not be telling you the best brand" and "meeting specifications is REALLY important".

Im converted. Great answer

 

[Arudge]

Im converted. Great answer

Good man. It's good advice.

 

[Arudge]

Something else worth knowing is the difference between mineral/semi synthetic and fully synthetic. The mineral and semi synthetic are grouped together because they both have a mineral content, whereas the fully synthetic is as the name suggests.

Oil with a mineral content decays with time, fully synthetic does not.

If you use a fully synthetic with a service life of 10,000 miles, you change the oil at 10,000 miles irrespective of time.

If you use a mineral or semi with a service life of 6,000 miles you change the oil at 6,000 miles OR at 12 months, whichever is the sooner. Oils with a mineral content should not be left in service more than 12 months, regardless of how few miles it may have done, mineral based oils decay, 12 months, change it.

Fully synthetics don't decay, so if it takes 3 years to do your 10,000 miles it doesn't matter. Change at 10,000 miles.

As fully synthetics are now available in the heavier grades for the older cars your far better of using fully synthetic on vintage vehicles, because the oil can stay in for as long as you like, change at 10,000 miles.

Fully synthetic oil is not all about performance, it's also about longevity and the fact it doesn't decay with time.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

Lot of info on youtube about semi synthetic and fully synthetic oils .Makers say its synthetic blend - or semi .When only a spoon full of synthetic is used to blended in to normal oils .Just a sales ploy. So if its possible for older engines to use fully synthetic ,then thats the way to go . Mobil 1 no longer make semi synthetic oils . True or false i dont know i found this info on a usa site . Everyone that knows about oil say not to use semi synthetic , but to go fully synthetic in the future .Thats if it will be ok in your engine . Well i will be looking out for fully synthetic for my next oil change .

 

[Arudge]

I got most of my information from Shell's technical department. I only phoned in with a reasonably simple question.

By the time they'd finished with me I had to have a lie down in a darkened room.

 

[Droverunner]

>>>Fully synthetic oil is not all about performance, it's also about longevity

Agree they are worth the extra expense. I've used fully synthetic at every oil change on all our cars for near on 10yrs now.

 

[oigle]

It is only the additives that are synthetic. The base oil is a low viscosity mineral oil with suitable viscosity improvers added to give it the viscosity range specified. Oil does not wear out - ever. Only the additives wear out. The syn ones last longer. The only fully synthetic oil I know of is Castrol R, which is a heavy racing grade. All others are mineral based.
I used to work for Shell....there is lots of BS spread around about oils.

Ian.

 

[Arudge]

It is only the additives that are synthetic. The base oil is a low viscosity mineral oil with suitable viscosity improvers added to give it the viscosity range specified. Oil does not wear out - ever. Only the additives wear out. The syn ones last longer. The only fully synthetic oil I know of is Castrol R, which is a heavy racing grade. All others are mineral based.
I used to work for Shell....there is lots of BS spread around about oils.

Ian.

Interesting point. It's not quite how I understood it but I'm not going to argue, i may have mis understood what i was being told. There was an awful lot of chemistry in it that I really didn't understand.

 

[Sylar]

It is only the additives that are synthetic. The base oil is a low viscosity mineral oil with suitable viscosity improvers added to give it the viscosity range specified. Oil does not wear out - ever. Only the additives wear out. The syn ones last longer. The only fully synthetic oil I know of is Castrol R, which is a heavy racing grade. All others are mineral based.
I used to work for Shell....there is lots of BS spread around about oils.

Ian.

This sounds about right!

 

[Droverunner]

I thought...

The base stock of synthetic oil was either actually synthetic or chemically altered to behave as synthetic. The additives pack are obviously added on top of this to the differing oil brands.

Additives do indeed wear out and it was my understanding when this happens with a mineral or semi synthetic the base oil degrades to lose its correct viscosity rating and engine protection.

With fully synthetic of any type when the additives wear out the base oil still holds its viscosity rating and retains a far greater protection to the engine.

Which all fits broady with Arudge's opinion a few posts back.

 

[oigle]

I thought...

The base stock of synthetic oil was either actually synthetic or chemically altered to behave as synthetic. The additives pack are obviously added on top of this to the differing oil brands.

Additives do indeed wear out and it was my understanding when this happens with a mineral or semi synthetic the base oil degrades to lose its correct viscosity rating and engine protection.

With fully synthetic of any type when the additives wear out the base oil still holds its viscosity rating and retains a far greater protection to the engine.

Which all fits broady with Arudge's opinion a few posts back.

Nope. Base oil is mineral. Yes the oil loses its viscosity as additives wear out (the additives give it its viscosity index improver) and it eventually will revert to the base oil viscosity. Usually by then, however, the other additives are failing and the oils starts to gunk up and become very sludgy, which will lead to bearing failure as the oil becomes too heavy to pump around successfully. I've seen it where it won't even drain from sump and sump had to be removed to remove it.
Ian.

 

[Sylar]

Nope. Base oil is mineral. Yes the oil loses its viscosity as additives wear out (the additives give it its viscosity index improver) and it eventually will revert to the base oil viscosity. Usually by then, however, the other additives are failing and the oils starts to gunk up and become very sludgy, which will lead to bearing failure as the oil becomes too heavy to pump around successfully. I've seen it where it won't even drain from sump and sump had to be removed to remove it.
Ian.

Hi Ian, just to try and put you on the spot..... which, in your opinion, brand, viscosity, should i buy? I understand the mb specification but many brands at differing viscositys cover this spec?

Just what your pouring into your car would be appreciated as i know this is a tough question due to the bull......

 

[M80]

Ian, as Sylar I'm interested learn what you pour into your sump.
and how often?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Provided it conforms to MB229.5 spec you need nothing else, plenty of OEM on E-Bay for £50 for 20 liters

The engine designers do spend a few hours coming up with oil specs for a reason

 

[Sylar]

The engine designers do spend a few hours coming up with oil specs for a reason

Petrol has to conform to specification such as ron. But we all agree that not all petrol is equal. Its the quality of the additives that Shell use for instance that make the fuel cleaner than say asda.... thats what im looking for here, i know we pay for adverts and sponsorship but im wondering if the big manufacturers do add better quality products to oil.

 

[Sylar]

Something else worth knowing is the difference between mineral/semi synthetic and fully synthetic. The mineral and semi synthetic are grouped together because they both have a mineral content, whereas the fully synthetic is as the name suggests.

Oil with a mineral content decays with time, fully synthetic does not.

If you use a fully synthetic with a service life of 10,000 miles, you change the oil at 10,000 miles irrespective of time.

If you use a mineral or semi with a service life of 6,000 miles you change the oil at 6,000 miles OR at 12 months, whichever is the sooner. Oils with a mineral content should not be left in service more than 12 months, regardless of how few miles it may have done, mineral based oils decay, 12 months, change it.

Fully synthetics don't decay, so if it takes 3 years to do your 10,000 miles it doesn't matter. Change at 10,000 miles.

As fully synthetics are now available in the heavier grades for the older cars your far better of using fully synthetic on vintage vehicles, because the oil can stay in for as long as you like, change at 10,000 miles.

Fully synthetic oil is not all about performance, it's also about longevity and the fact it doesn't decay with time.

You should change any oil yearly regardless of fully synthetic. Our winters cause water to condense inside the engine, in extreme cases the oil turns milky by spring.

 

[Sylar]

Provided it conforms to MB229.5 spec you need nothing else, plenty of OEM on E-Bay for £50 for 20 liters

I just couldnt bring myself to put 50 quid for 20 litres oil off ebay into a Mercedes. Maybe for my lawnmower and gate hinges Actually, scrap that, just the gate hinges......