Big brother

[jibcl500]

Yet another Gov scheme to make money.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19258


jib

 

[100%Bitch]

I can't see anything wrong with it.

I think everybody who drives vehicles on the road without being insured should be shot at birth.

Am I missing something?

 

[Stu_CDX]

I can't see anything wrong with it.

I think everybody who drives vehicles on the road without being insured should be shot at birth.

Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something.

I buy my cars that I restore and work on and often they have a lot of tax left.

The government will probably stop allowing you to cash the tax in making the whole thing pointless and money grabbing. I put 12 months tax on my Belmont before I laid it up.

I only use day insure if I go to shows and stuff and I refuse to take out a whole years policy. So instead of no insurance, people will drive around with no tax which I think is a good thing anyway due to the **** condition of the roads and so on.

I think we should pay for tax and insurance to the governement through the pumps and the insurance companies should be closed down.

£7834 to insure a Maestro EFi my arse.

 

[100%Bitch]

Yes, you're missing something.

I buy my cars that I restore and work on and often they have a lot of tax left.

The government will probably stop allowing you to cash the tax in making the whole thing pointless and money grabbing. I put 12 months tax on my Belmont before I laid it up.

I only use day insure if I go to shows and stuff and I refuse to take out a whole years policy. So instead of no insurance, people will drive around with no tax which I think is a good thing anyway due to the **** condition of the roads and so on.

I think we should pay for tax and insurance to the governement through the pumps and the insurance companies should be closed down.

£7834 to insure a Maestro EFi my arse.

I can't see anything there saying that you cannot cash tax in. That's an presumption on your part.

If you use day insurance to go to shows then you're insured so there's no problem. You can't drive around with no tax anymore because of the cameras at the sides of roads and in traffic cars.

As for paying tax and insurance through the pumps,well, that's another issue.

As for driving with no insurance - you might think differently if somebody hit your car or a member of your family and the driver wasn't insured.

 

[jibcl500]

I see the point in removing uninsured drivers fromthe road but this system will need to be paid for and that income will come from people who forget to SORN the insurance on a car. £100 fine.

So its not really aimed at catching unisured drivers its about make another so many million a year out of motorists becuase they forgot to do something.

Easy solution for uninsured drivers is to remove them from cars at the road side and put a gun to thier heads and pull the trigger.

jib

 

[Stu_CDX]

I can't see anything there saying that you cannot cash tax in. That's an presumption on your part.

If you use day insurance to go to shows then you're insured so there's no problem. You can't drive around with no tax anymore because of the cameras at the sides of roads and in traffic cars.

As for paying tax and insurance through the pumps,well, that's another issue.

As for driving with no insurance - you might think differently if somebody hit your car or a member of your family and the driver wasn't insured.

Already had it happen. Someone wrote off my Picasso and that's why I'm stuck with a W124 with broken suspension now cos' I can't afford anything else.

I use day insurance, but they're saying they're going to fine you for having road tax on an uninsured vehicle. My car is always uninsured unless it's going to a show, so how am I meant to do that? Keep buying a new road tax every couple of months?

Pathetic.

 

[Splatt]

If you are not using the vehicle on the road you can buy through the motor insurer a cheap policy to cover you for loss while it is in you garage or workshop (Theft, fire etc.) would this meet the requirement , I wonder.

 

[Stu_CDX]

If you are not using the vehicle on the road you can buy through the motor insurer a cheap policy to cover you for loss while it is in you garage or workshop (Theft, fire etc.) would this meet the requirement , I wonder.

Indeed... Laid up cover... Circa £60 a year. No, this wouldn't count as it doesn't come up on the Motor Insurance Database nor would it come up on a PNC check.

 

[Mrtibbs]

I think you did miss something Helen, or I am
This is just the same scam that they pulled with the SORN weapon. I had a RR that had a piston pick up (not as unusual as one might think ) and it went to sick bay to be repaired. It was in the sick bay for several months, can't really remember why now, and during that time the RFL expired. Being a stupid moron that I am (having been educated by this country) I thought, oh well it is not on the road (no offence there then) and it will be back out in a couple of weeks, so I will not require the felling of more equatorial rainforest to print out a SORN document that I will be relinquishing in a couple of weeks.
Well about 9 days after my RFL expired this letter arrived from the valleys telling me that I was a heinous criminal and they demanded about £100 (from memory) to teach me a lesson. I of course appealed, including a letter from the RR specialists, who were doing the work, confirming that the car had been immobilised since, whatever date, and was only just ready to be returned to roadworthy condition, which by now was about 20 days after the RFL had expired. I then taxed the car to be able to use it on the road again, and made sure that the RFL was backdated to cover the period that it had expired (about 3 weeks). I thought that it would now just go away, but hey NO...... I had now both committed a cardinal sin and worse.................... I had challenged them.......... I received a letter about 2 weeks further on saying that they had held an inquiry into my claim (another waste of taxpayers money, if indeed they did???) and had decided that the fine was correct and appropriate and if I didn't pay within the original time period (now about 18 hours to go........) I would face prosecution. How nice it is to be treated in such a humane way!!!!!
I phoned (after a 3 hour wait, listening to that damned recorded message and tinkling musak that is designed to make the general public loose the will to live and hang up, but not me, oh no I was determined to talk to them) and offered my Mother and my children and my children's children if they would please allow the other national success, the Post Office, time to deliver my cheque into their grubby, sweaty little hands.
They said NO, I had to use a courier....................................
Comments from the lunatic in charge of this particular ward in the asylum are so helpful don't you think? Mr Fitzpatrick said: 'The selfish minority of drivers who refuse to insure their cars push up premiums for other motorists and kill or injure thousands of people each year.' has not got a clue has he? We own four vehicles, all MOT'd (another Government tax), RFL'd at a cumulative cost of over £700 and insured at some unholy price that I do not want to think about lest my eyes start to bleed and they spend the vast majority of their collective lives sitting parked on my drive..................................... Surely this more than makes up in some small way to reducing the overall planetary pollution, wear and tear of our broken, third world roads, and the risks faced by the poor insurance companies who's executives have been on the bread line for years hardly able to feed themselves, let alone having the strength to harbour thoughts about procreation :cry:
I am however in favour of sterilisation of the illegitimates that wander our green and (not so) pleasant land without sharing the collective burden, if this fails then hanging, drawing and quartering would seem to offer a viable alternative :grin::grin:
Sorry for the long winded rant, however my nerves are still extremely raw....
Thanks for listening :grin:

Keith

 

[100%Bitch]

I use day insurance, but they're saying they're going to fine you for having road tax on an uninsured vehicle.

My interpretation was that they would send a letter to the keeper of any car that was seen driving around with a tax disc and no record of insurance. It takes nothing to reply in the pre paid envelope if you are insured. If you reply, no fine. If you don't bother to reply or have no insurance, you get fined. I really can't see anything wrong with it.

At present they send you a letter if you don't send in the green bit of the log book when you sell a car to say they're giving you a £30 fine. You just reply to confirm you have sent it in and that's the end to it. It's no different, really.

 

[truthfindergeneral]

'So its not really aimed at catching unisured drivers its about make another so many million a year out of motorists becuase they forgot to do something.'
Exactly the point I was going to make. The sort of people who deliberately don't pay their car insurance are the sort who don't pay fines either.
As for SORN, we are trusting those helpful ( not ) folks of the DVLA and their c**p computer system.

 

[100%Bitch]

'So its not really aimed at catching unisured drivers its about make another so many million a year out of motorists becuase they forgot to do something.'

They try to make it easy for you - they send you a reminder through the post. How easy is that?

(that's a rhetorical question by the way)

 

[truthfindergeneral]

You will have a choice, SORN or insure. Now what's the betting that the present ' free " SORN service from the DVLA becomes a chargeable service for Sorning and UnSorning due to the extra numbers who will be doing this. I reckon £30 to start with rising to around £60 in 3 years time. You read it here first.

 

[foof1]

In 2007/2008, Merseyside Police siezed over 3000 untaxed and uninsured vehicles from the roads. The high end and newer vehicles are regularly displayed outside Police HQ (Not on road) with stickers all over them stating why they were siezed. 3000 vehicles is a huge amount of illegal vehicles off our roads. If you are uninsured or you don't have tax, YOU WILL GET CAUGHT!! With ANPR cameras fitted in Police vehicles and at many static sites on our roads has had the effect of reducing the risk of having an incident with an illegal driver which is great news for all of us!!!!!!

The proposed changes in legislation will not make any difference if you have a vehicle off the road. The article stated that it will not affect SORN vehicles. The answer is if you vehicle is going to be off the road for any length of time, SORN the vehicle and claim any vehicle tax back.

I will try and fine any publication of the new proposed regulations and see if it makes it things difficult but I suspect it won't.

 

[jberks]

I'm struggling to see a problem too. In the old days, yes you could effectively back date a sorn by simply ticking the 'my car was off the road' box on a tax disk form. I can understand them stamping down on that one.

As a penniless student, knowing that the coppers would give you a months grace on a tax disk, I would regulary wait a month to tax the car (I was always fully insured, MOTs etc, just not necessarily taxed). When that month was coming to an end I'd think, why pay for last month, its gone now and nobody's said anything, I'll tax it next month instead, then one month would roll into another and 4 months later I'd figure that a copper would probably throw the book at me for driving round with a 4 month old disc, or else the year had moved over and it was now the wrong colour, gather up the funds and tax it for 6 months. So back-date and have maybe 2 months before it all started again, or tick the box and get 6.
Hence, I can understand why the insist on a SORN ahead of time. Had there been one in my day I wouldn't have pushed my luck.

As far as failing to fill it in or tax it, lets be fair here, I accept they're over zelous pen pushers who, like our friends at the IR are hired precisely because they have never met the real world, but they do tell us what the rules are and send us a reminder letter so our laziness in not complying isn't really their fault. A car temporarily off the road still needs taxing or sorning - we know that and if we don't comply we know the penalty. Our anger at being fined, if we're honest is really just a projection of our annoyance at ourselves - to paraphrase a phsyco.

I do agree that this bunch of muppets will undoubtably whack a big charge on SORN applications at some point but at the moment they don't so thats for another day. If it's SORN then it doesn't need insurance so thats pain free.

Anyway, people can't do what I did with tax anymore, but they can still do it with insurance - which is a far more serious issue. Sure there is a risk they'll get picked up by ANPR but it's minimal. So, they chance it for a month and get away with it...until they don't and you're left with a stuffed car and no-one to claim against.
I would imagine there are far more who 'chance' the insurance gap and just re-insure when they need to, than there are those who don't tax, insure or register. Many insure, tax and then cancel the insurance again.
This should stop them, making a dramatic reduction in uninsured drivers and hopefully reducing the £30 (so £60+ for most of us) each of us pays each year just to cover ourselves against these inconsiderate muppets - so on balance sorry but I think I am in favour of this one.

 

[Rappey69]

I cant see any problem with this new idea either. Am sure the member who only drives his car a few times a year to shows can either negotiate a deal with his insurers as he hardly does any miles or maybe the cheaper option would be to invest in a trailer ?
Tax renewal time comes through the post then you have the option to renew or declare sorn. All it takes is less than one minute to do either online. what could be more simple.
The unfortunate part is the motorist who forgets, gets fined. but the joy rider/twoker who does much damage seems to get off very lightly (police,camera,action. Road wars.) I have seen some of them steal a car so no insurance or license,crash it whilst being chased then get a £125 fine and a years ban,which does not stop them going out the next day and doing it all over again.

 

[jberks]

then get a £125 fine and a years ban,which does not stop them going out the next day and doing it all over again.

Especially as they're on the dole so can't pay the fine and don't have a licence so the ban is irrelevant too. The court case is just a day out for them.

For those that use the car for a few days a year, as has been said, a limited mileage classic tpft policy is pretty cheap and if you don't use it in the winter, then you save 6 months tax by sorning it. Admittedly registering/deregistering it could be a real pain but the guy I heard on the radio did say there would be something to take account of classics and collections.

 

[foof1]

Lets have offenders made to watch as their vehicles are crushed. Would it be cheaper to have offenders shipped out to the USA for a stint in one of their finest prisons. I'm sure that would make a few think twice and therefore more cost effective in the long run.

I thought new legislation would take into account classics etc.

 

[truthfindergeneral]

If any one is expecting to see money off their insurance because this scheme is in operation, then I suggest you keep your helmets on until you reach Earths atmosphere.

 

[jberks]

If any one is expecting to see money off their insurance because this scheme is in operation, then I suggest you keep your helmets on until you reach Earths atmosphere.

Normally a fair point when dealing with these monstrously nasty profiteering corporations, but in the case of car insurance, it is a fiercely competitive market out there and if we can reduce the ins co's costs, we should, if not see a reduction, at least a slower increase. After all, if the £30 each is right, then thats over 10% of most people's premiums.

Since the advent of insurance search engines they can't take the P as much as they used to. In the old days when you had to have a broker or ring around it was too much hassle and I stayed with the same co for years. Now, I've had 3 different ins cos in the last 3 years. They don't compete they don't get the business.