BRABUS 3.6-24 tick sound

[Brabus 3.6-24]

Hey i have a problem i hope someone here can help me with.

My BRABUS 3.6-24 300E W124

the problem is sometimes when the engine is hot about 85 degrees, the engine starts to make a realy scarry metal ticking sound wich follows the engine speed/rpm.
One of my friends who know a lot of mercedes, told me to change the propella system for the cooler as it´s controled by the rpm of the engine as it´s get hottere.
I then changed the system, but the sound still comes and go as the engine are hot, sometimes it never apears at all, and somtimes it´s coming right away when the engine becomes hot about 80 to 85 degrees.
But mostly after an accelleration to 7000 rpm.

If i turn the engine off, untill it gets cooled down the sound is gone again when i start it up again.

im realy afraid that the engine has a costly defekt like the valves or the rods, cams, pins etc.
But again that would have maked the sound permantly i think, witch ít ain´t.

The engine never get´s hottere than 85-90 degrees and the oil presure is always above 1.5 Bar in "N" and raises to 3 Bar as soon as i push the throtle. That is when the engine is hot.
The engine is on it´s 150.000 Km run and runs very smoth and nice.
With other words the engine it selv has no other odd behavior other that the sound it makes when it get´s hot.

I hope someone can pin point the problem.

 

[MR DAMAS]

Sounds to me to be the tappets .

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

Ok, can you explane to me what the tappets are doing and where they are located?
What makes you think it´s the tappets?
How much do i need to take apart for putting in new ones if needed?

Thanks for a realy quick reply

 

[television]

Hej Brabus, Tappits = Lyft = kam =ventillyftare.

These are on the top of the engine under the top cover, there are some pads to change. Many threads here on how to do it

Hej Då
Malcolm

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

Hey thanks, i just read some info on a site about worn out tappets.
im realy scared now, because it also say something about that you NEVER only change the tappets, you also change the cams or else you can expect the new tappets to be worn out just as quick as you can count to 1000 Km.
This is freaking my out as im realy worry that the cams are not as easy to get because it´s special BRABUS parts. :-(

But im still not sure, because why are the sound ONLY comming when the engine gets hot?, wouldn´t you ekspect it to be permantly?
The sound can come and go also when it´s hot.

How sure are you that it´s my tappets?
I just bought the car and to my opinion the car is not as fast as i normaly would ekspect it to be, but how would i know i just bought it.

 

[Bolide]

Noisy tappets are common on W124 engines but they're normally noisy at startup and quieten down as they pump up with oil. As far as I know you always need new tappets with a new cam but you can use new tappets with an old cam

I'd have the rocker cover off and use a stethoscope to locate the noisy tappet then replace it. I'd be surprised if the tappets were unique to the engine

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[television]

You do not change the tappits, only little pads (shims) that sit under them. there is nothing special about them and they do not cost much to buy.

On the top of your engine you have 2 Kam shafts that turn, lobes on the kam shaft press the rockers down. this opens the valve (ventil) there must be clearance when the valve is closed, the bit you change goes in between, little round disc that come in two sizes.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=6077&highlight=tappets

malcolm

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

ok. that makes me fell a bit more relaxed
i know it´s a common problem on the M103 and M104 engines, my moms 260E W124 had the cam worn out about 120.000 Km and it was replaced with a new one.
But her´s engine sound much different and it was relay notisable at high rpm´s because the engine was realy fighting for getting enything aboved 5000 Rpm´s.
My engine is no way near that symtoms, the engine seems to pull stright to 7000 Rpm´s without eny power loss.

When i start the engine cold, the engine have the normal silent clicks at the first 1-2 seconds untill the oil gets all around.

The sound im talking about is acturly so loud that it´s posible to sit in the car with the enigne on all dors and windows closed and you can still hear it :-(

allmost like a fork hammering between to glass with water in it hard to explain.

 

[Bolide]

Malcolm, I thought they were hydraulic tappets without shims?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

Im not sure but someone in here i think it´s M600 told somewhere that the BRABUS conversion include removing of the hydralic system becuase it lets you tune in the engine for a higher performance level.
And someone also told me i should be glad for that, since the hydralic lifters system is much more likely to fail/worn out etc, something like that i think, can remeber for sure.

 

[television]

Malcolm, I thought they were hydraulic tappets without shims?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Hello Nick, you know much more than me on this subject, I started off just trying to translate for Brabus to understand. I have never done one, but I followed Turnipsocks thread when he did his. Thank you for pointing it out

Malcolm

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

http://www.v8engines.com/engine-4.htm#worncams

Here a bit down on the site they say and i quote:

Some so called experts may say it is ok to fit new tappets without fitting a new camshaft when all seems good. Not so.
Never fit new tappets without a new cam, honestly, it's the only way.

If that´s the true im worried.
just to bee sure i will send BRABUS an Email right away to hear if the cams still awaylable.
or else maybe someone know how to make ones out of the org. or if there are companies that makes specific cams on speciel orders?

 

[television]

http://www.v8engines.com/engine-4.htm#worncams

Here a bit down on the site they say and i quote:

Some so called experts may say it is ok to fit new tappets without fitting a new camshaft when all seems good. Not so.
Never fit new tappets without a new cam, honestly, it's the only way.

If that´s the true im worried.
just to bee sure i will send BRABUS an Email right away to hear if the cams still awaylable.
or else maybe someone know how to make ones out of the org. or if there are companies that makes specific cams on speciel orders?

first you should be in bed, its 1.45 your time.
Cam shafts can be rebuilt using a method called metal spraying. Hot moulton metal is sprayed onto the cam shaft and it is re ground to spec, or higher lift if required

It is always best to examine the camshaft first, you can see it with the cover off, if there are groves or flats on the lobes if not that only leaves the bearing faces, these can be checked when they are off.

Malcolm

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

Ok.
i will se what it will end up with.
Thanks so much for a quick response.

i still though have my doubt in this isue, because the sound is coming on and off like it does.
I think i will bring the problem to several mekanics so i have more than just one eye and ear, on the problem.

 

[television]

Many years ago we had the same problem on the GM V8's as fitted to the Rover 3.5 and 3500 cars, sometimes through no reason 1 tappet would tick tick tick, other times they were silent.It is mainly brought about through expantion.

Oil changes from mineral oil to synthetic could start one tapping on our MB cars.

If you put a wooden handled screwdriver on the top of the engine with the handle against your ear will help you pin point it.

4 or 5 people have done theirs this last 12 months, Maybe Turnipsock would care to comment.

Malcolm

 

[Bolide]

I wouldn't take the word of some website about cams & tappets. Speak to experts (Kent Cams, Piper, etc) to find out what they recommend

The reason you need new tappets with a new cam is so that the wear pattern on the tappet doesn't prematurely wear the cam. Both pieces are going to be hardened & treated to prevent wear but over time they will wear, particularly if their oil supply is poor / blocked / starved. As Television says, oil is important. It's oil that pumps up the tappet so the wrong grade will cause problems

If you fit a new tappet to an old cam then, to my mind, the worst that can happen is that the old cam wears the new tappet. But I'd defer to experts like Piper on this

Worn-out Mercedes tappets are a known problem and, believe me, they get changed without the cam being replaced as well. A pair of cams will be expensive - as will 24 new tappets

One last thing: some Mercedes cams are known for snapping while they're being removed. If someone works on the car please make sure they know this and take all possible care

The best thing you can do with the car - and this is true for 99.99% of all queries on this website - is to take it to an expert, professional garagiste

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Glenn Smith]

So does the brabus have hydraulic tappets? if so it sounds like one has failed, forget about replacing cams, find the faulty tappet and replace just the one (unless cams are worn of course) If it doesn't have hydraulic lifters, the noise lies elsewhere, timing chain perhaps?

 

[Brabus 3.6-24]

When i start the engine Cold, ther is a small ticking sound but thats all normal until the oil gets around, and someone told me if that is true, it could only be an engine with the hydraulic lifters.

After 2-3 days the ticking sound has not been there at all.
But im gonna change the oil rims enyway because its eating a lot of oil. and smokes like a Truck.
It should only be because the oil rims has get hard or what they are called

Thanks everyone for helping.
I will just change the lifters when im inside the top enyway for a oil rims change.

 

[television]

If the car smokes after pulling away from a stop ,it is valves/guides worn
If it smokes all the time and worse when pulling hard its Rings/bores worn.

malcolm

 

[Glenn Smith]

sound like it's time for an engine rebuild, the ticking could well be piston slap, a rattle noticeable just as you accelerate from idle with no load, quite common on tuned engines with short piston skirts and volvo 3 series.