Brake Pipe Replacement

[Shaun_wells]

Hi,

I have a 93 300TD Estate.

I have found that one of my brake pipes has started to leak on the drivers side rear wheel due to corrosion. This pipe seems to run the whole length of the underneath of the car..

I just wanted to know if this is a simple task of buying a replacement part and fitting or is there a little more to it. Do I need any special tools to bend the pipe as there is a bend near the rear wheel.

Where can I get brake pipe from as well ?

Any Advice Welcome.
Thanks.

 

[television]

Ouch,, this could be a sub frame off job, it the leak is accessible why not have a talk to a brake pipe specialist firm who might be able to join a new piece in

 

[delboy777]

Better to replace the whole length with copper pipe, the chances are that it will be corroded elsewhere, no point skimping with brakes.

 

[meanie]

Before you start,see if you can source a brake pipe joining piece.You then take a good look around the n/s subframe area where the pipes are & work out where you can get 2 spanners (usually 11mm & 13mm) in.Then cut the old brake pipes there,and take them to a local garage who will make up pipes to the pattern with unions on the cut ends of the old pipes to match your joiner.
It's still a bit of a fiddle,but a hell of a lot better than dropping the subframe to lay a full length pipe in.

 

[television]

Before you start,see if you can source a brake pipe joining piece.You then take a good look around the n/s subframe area where the pipes are & work out where you can get 2 spanners (usually 11mm & 13mm) in.Then cut the old brake pipes there,and take them to a local garage who will make up pipes to the pattern with unions on the cut ends of the old pipes to match your joiner.
It's still a bit of a fiddle,but a hell of a lot better than dropping the subframe to lay a full length pipe in.

A man after my own heart

 

[delboy777]

Oops !!

 

[television]

Oops !!

No need for oops del,,if you knew what a job it is on this car you could think differently,,on normal cars yes,take it out and replace, but you are looking at £3-400 labour with just the subframe removal

 

[5pares]

Im sure copper pipes can be feed over the subframe and bent once in place,id be replacing both front to rear if one has gone.

 

[delboy777]

Why the hell do they route the pipes in such an bad way, i did not realise they did that.Should keep my gob shut unless i know what im talking about. I have 35 years experience with cars ,but not MBs:-?

 

[meanie]

Just to make myself clear-what I mean is that you take BOTH halves of the cut pipe as patterns for the replacement pipes.That is then a new pipe from the front to the rear.This is just a much simpler way of doing the job.
The hardest part of it may be sourcing the joiners.I bought a job lot of a couple of hundred a few years ago & only have a handfull left.

 

[television]

Why the hell do they route the pipes in such an bad way, i did not realise they did that.Should keep my gob shut unless i know what im talking about. I have 35 years experience with cars ,but not MBs:-?

Your input is most welcome so please keep it up Del. I made a few mess up when I started, and that after owning 468 cars including total rebuild.

You carry on as normal, if one says something and it is picked on,just ignore it and it will go away.

I make boobs all the time, its a forum after all and I welcome your input,so please do not stop

The first thing to remember is that your advice was good, just not practical for this car

 

[meanie]

Im sure copper pipes can be feed over the subframe and bent once in place,id be replacing both front to rear if one has gone.

It really is a sod of a job doing it that way!
Don't forget also that it is an MOT failure if they are not securely clipped into place.

 

[television]

Everyone with a 123 or 4 should jack the car when the sun comes out in a few weeks and give all of the pipes a good dose of Waxoil, that includes the brake pipe,suspension pipes and fuel pipes for the same problem can happen to the other pipes

 

[kth286]

Shaun

Merc delaers can usually order the brake pipes for you in a couple of days and they will be to exact length will all the proper fittings on them.

And cheaper than you might think.

Fantastic Merc service.

They arrive straight, and you have to bend them to shape by copying the one you take off.

You may need to lower the subframe one side at a time.

Of course the estate is more complex with additional self leveling suspension components.

Are you sure it is the brake and not the hydraulics leaking from the self leveling?

 

[turbopete]

problem with ordering from dealers, in my experience (although never tried with mercs) is that the pipes are steel, like the originals, much harder to bend into the clips etc than copper, and unlike copper, steel corrodes again. you can buy rolls of copper brake ipe (25 metres) for about a fiver from most parts factors, a small tube cutter for about the same, and a brake pipe flaring tool for 15 - 20 quid. any pipe nuts and joints can be sourced from local parts factors, usually in packs of 10 at my local 1, and this way you have brake pipes for any car at any time! and if you find you dont have the right brake pipe nut for a car, you can cut the flare off the pipe and re-use the original nut! not ideal, but if you need the car it gets you back on the road!

 

[Quickbrit]

For around 50 quid you can buy some nice steel braided lines for your Merc...

Why put something on that will eventually corrode the same way these have?

My 2c's

MikeE

 

[kth286]

Putting matters into perspective the brake pipes have lasted some 16 years on the car in question - if they have indeed gone bad.

The steel pipes are the correct approach for brakes because they are double walled pipes.

Copper (whilst seems to be widely used) is wrong and ultimately dangerous and is NOT original as per car build regulations.

The problem with copper is that it is single wall and has the inherent built in problem that it work hardens.

This means that vibration and any bending of the pipe will make it harder and brittle as time goes on, so much so that it can physically break.

Test a piece of copper by bending it a few times and you will see that as it heats it gets more brittle.

The cost of those made up Merc pipes range from like 7 to 15 pounds depending on which ones you need, and are to exact length, complete ready to fit onto car.

 

[wireman]

I am under the impression that pure copper pipe is not permitted on automotive hydraulic brakes.

For good reasons.

1/ Copper is soft and can deform under the very high pressures which can be developed in such sytems.

2/ Copper work hardens when its being manipulated leading to harder spots with different stregnth to non workhardened copper, bends can therefore be weak points.

3/ Soft copper is not suitable for single swaged pipe ends as found on some automotive brakes, it will work loose and leak.

However the there are copper alloys available which are suitable.

Kunifer 10 is 90Cu/10Ni and has approval for automotive use, make sure that you fix it securely since it will fret away if its loose in clips etc and then it will eventualy burst under braking (been there done that too).

 

[philharve]

Life of brake pipework

Hi All

My C230K just failed its MOT (first time) due to a rusty, rear nearside brake pipe. I spoke to my indie who recommended replacing the pipework along both sides which 'might' require dropping the rear subframe. My C-class has ESP.

I did not think to ask my indie whether replacing brake pipework on a Mercedes was a frequent task. My 'frequent' I mean every 10 years (say), because that is how old my car is. The exhaust system is original and I would have thought that would need replacing before the brake pipework. Also, I have had other makes of motorcar that were far older than my Mercedes and never needed the brake pipework replacing, flexible lines excepted.

Is there an issue with M-B brake pipework for cars produced around the Millenium?

Regards

Phil

 

[Juddian]

Everyone with a 123 or 4 should jack the car when the sun comes out in a few weeks and give all of the pipes a good dose of Waxoil, that includes the brake pipe,suspension pipes and fuel pipes for the same problem can happen to the other pipes

Couldn't agree more.

One of my first jobs when buying any make of car is to jack it well up on it's suspension...remove wheels if you can...inspect the whole of the underside paying particular attention to those hidden brake and other pipes.
Mind you you can usually see the route they take with a torch that goes round corners ,then thoroughly clean the years of accumulated salt off everything, leave to dry** and thoroughly coat in Waxoyl or similar (waterproof grease is fine for metal pipes)...you won't be able to reach some but the aerosols will.

It's pure neglect over the years that causes corroded brake pipes.

** it makes sense to scratch any corroded brake pipes to judge corrosion before coating them.