Breakthrough deal

[Parisien]

[QUOtKiwi, post: 1581652, member: 13982"]A deal will have to struck or Mrs May will be out of a job.
If there's no deal then the Irish agreement cannot be upheld as there would need to be a customs border (impossible for there not to be as far as I can see) and there would equally need to be a border preventing free traffic of people (otherwise why bother with borders at all). Any border controls will not be popular with the DUP and they have the potential to topple the government if they do desire.[/QUOTE]


Fall back/default position states there wont be any changes in current position of N Ireland even if no deal reached!!

Thats guaranteed, the GFA is an internationally ratified agreement, the free movement of Irish and UK passport holders within both countries is guaranteed too.

P

 

[Frontstep]

Your logic is (again) flawed.

A 'dyed in the wool Europhile' would want no restrictions at all - same as we've had for the past 30 odd years.

But the Brextremists have never been know for their logic.

Errh have you ever ever traded anything whatsoever between the EU and outside it, in it just anywhere anything.

There are approximately 40,000 legal acts in the EU. There are also 15,000 Court verdicts and 62,000 international standards, all of which must be respected and obeyed by citizens and companies in the EU.



"30 years of no restrictions" that has to be the funniest thing I have heard in decades, surely your being ironic ?

 

[LostKiwi]

Errh have you ever ever traded anything whatsoever between the EU and outside it, in it just anywhere anything.

There are approximately 40,000 legal acts in the EU. There are also 15,000 Court verdicts and 62,000 international standards, all of which must be respected and obeyed by citizens and companies in the EU.



"30 years of no restrictions" that has to be the funniest thing I have heard in decades, surely your being ironic ?

And if you want to trade with the EU you still have to observe those laws but being outside with no trade agreements let's add tariffs and customs regulations into the mix as well. Yep.. that's definitely logical. As I said your logic is flawed.

 

[Frontstep]

"A 'dyed in the wool Europhile' would want no restrictions at all - same as we've had for the past 30 odd years."

In the most over regulated market in the world, I rest my case your honour.

 

[LostKiwi]

"A 'dyed in the wool Europhile' would want no restrictions at all - same as we've had for the past 30 odd years."

In the most over regulated market in the world, I rest my case your honour.

I was referring to trade barriers and movement of people not to regulation which would need to be complied with anyway. But then you're probably incapable of looking at the bigger picture beyond just trade.

 

[Yugguy]

There is nothing beyond trade in this world. Everything is bought and sold, mammon rules.

 

[LostKiwi]

That's a very narrow view Yugguy. How about cultural exchange or transfer of knowledge - neither of which have trade figures associated with them? The free flow of ideas that allow us to advance technology and scientific cooperation that allows us to understand the universe we inhabit?

 

[Frontstep]

Strange

I was referring to trade barriers and movement of people not to regulation which would need to be complied with anyway. But then you're probably incapable of looking at the bigger picture beyond just trade.

Strange how you try to qualify everything after some one has pointed out the flaws in your logic.
Trade barriers are of course regulations and movement of people is of course governed by those pesky regulations.

Can't wait for your next explanation of what you actually mean't.

 

[LostKiwi]

Strange


Strange how you try to qualify everything after some one has pointed out the flaws in your logic.
Trade barriers are of course regulations and movement of people is of course governed by those pesky regulations.

Can't wait for your next explanation of what you actually mean't.

You've already had it. If you don't understand....

 

[Craiglxviii]

That's a very narrow view Yugguy. How about cultural exchange or transfer of knowledge - neither of which have trade figures associated with them? The free flow of ideas that allow us to advance technology and scientific cooperation that allows us to understand the universe we inhabit?

Transfer of knowledge absolutely does have a dollar- sterling value associated with it...

 

[LostKiwi]

Transfer of knowledge absolutely does have a dollar- sterling value associated with it...

Of course it does (I work for one of the largest repositories of scientific data in the world) but it never appears in trade figures.

 

[flowrider]

I dont understand how we can have an open border between The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland whilst controlling the borders elsewhere. Wont anyone who wants to enter the UK just come in via the open border? If the Republic are so adamant on an open border with NI then wont they have to have a border with the EU?

 

[LostKiwi]

I dont understand how we can have an open border between The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland whilst controlling the borders elsewhere. Wont anyone who wants to enter the UK just come in via the open border? If the Republic are so adamant on an open border with NI then wont they have to have a border with the EU?

Yes.... I'm looking forward to the detail on that...

 

[Frontstep]

You've already had it. If you don't understand....

Aah the old you don't understand it retort, an old one so often relied upon by those who have reached beyond their argument or ability to make it.

Still if you think we have/had no restrictions during our EU membership and I quote ;

A 'dyed in the wool Europhile' would want no restrictions at all - same as we've had for the past 30 odd years.

its clear why you are so nervous of Brexit you simply don't understand what we have, you voted to remain in a desert of misunderstanding.

 

[LostKiwi]

Aah the old you don't understand it retort, an old one so often relied upon by those who have reached beyond their argument or ability to make it.

Still if you think we have/had no restrictions during our EU membership and I quote ;

A 'dyed in the wool Europhile' would want no restrictions at all - same as we've had for the past 30 odd years.

its clear why you are so nervous of Brexit you simply don't understand what we have, you voted to remain in a desert of misunderstanding.

Great selfie!

Since you seem to have trouble grasping basics...
For the past 30 plus years we have had unrestricted access to the EU markets.
We have had unrestricted travel to the EU for business and pleasure or career opportunities.
We have had unrestricted sharing of resources for scientific research and development.
We have had unrestricted access into EU financial markets via passporting.

Do you think you can understand all that?

As I said.... Great selfie.

 

[anglaslt]

I dont understand how we can have an open border between The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland whilst controlling the borders elsewhere. Wont anyone who wants to enter the UK just come in via the open border? If the Republic are so adamant on an open border with NI then wont they have to have a border with the EU?

Yes, except first they need to get into the RoI and that is not so easy as it's a non-Schengen country. It cannot restrict the movement of EU nationals but it will not be a back door for asylum seekers and economic migrants.

 

[M80]

As we must protect the mainland ports, then now and future, from the possible influx of narcotics and weapons that may come here via Ireland, north or south, I could never understand the Irish border issue.

The issue might be the administration of migrants and goods finding their way easily into the north. Allowing the north the power to manage this as it sees fit is the only way I can see, a sort of buffer between the eu and the mainland.
If NI allows for eu migrants to enter, even live and work there, there is still no need for the mainland to do the same. We simply continue to manage at our mainland ports.

 

[LostKiwi]

As we must protect the mainland ports, then now and future, from the possible influx of narcotics and weapons that may come here via Ireland, north or south, I could never understand the Irish border issue.

The issue might be the administration of migrants and goods finding their way easily into the north. Allowing the north the power to manage this as it sees fit is the only way I can see, a sort of buffer between the eu and the mainland.
If NI allows for eu migrants to enter, even live and work there, there is still no need for the mainland to do the same. We simply continue to manage at our mainland ports.

Thats the border the DUP objected to.....A border between the UK and NI.

 

[d215yq]

If there is no "border" between Ireland and NI then there is no restrictions on people/goods etc. You can't just say "it's OK because Ireland is non-schengen" because the UK was already non Schengen so we haven't gained anything.

Actually I disagree with this brextremist view being illogical, surely if you leave the only way is to do no deal and set up a customs border with NI and be a proper brexiteer. What we have now is the most illogical negotiation ever.

I am a remainer, I've lived in different EU countries and see that the EU, much as it's a pretty terrible institution, doesn't have any negative effect unless it is allowed to and although is a waste of money it is so small in the grand scheme of things it's not worth getting upset about. That said if I had to implement a Brexit I'd have announced the next day that as of 6 months we'll leave and pay you no money and we'll have a border but we won't charge you any tariffs unless you do, in which case we'll match whatever you do...so over to you.

In fact one of the reasons I was a more ardent remainer (I actually could just about see both sides of the argument) was because the above was obviously never going to happen and a deal would be done in which we will have most of the supposed "negatives" of being in the EU (free movement of people, and paying a membership bill, being part of the ECJ) with some of the positives reduced slightly (freeish trade, etc). Making the whole Brexit one of the biggest wastes of time and money in history. It staggers me anyone thought that in a world of big business and vested interests that anything other than a fudged negotiation worse than what we had as part of the EU was ever going to happen.

 

[LostKiwi]

^^^Nail. Head.^^^