cam / crank synchronisation error code

stu2009

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Hi.
My vito 112cdi 99v is running rough and when the revs hit about 3200 the engine revs will jump back violently. If you take you foot of the gas straight away the engine will keep going. If you keep your foot down it will cut out. I have had the injectors, the ecu and the wiring tested. The turbo and fuel pump also seem ok. The cam and crank sensors have also been replaced. The engine starts as usual but runs a little rough, the higher the revs go the rougher it gets and with much less power.
When hooked up to a computer, an error code reports cam / crank synchronisation error. There is 110k on the clock not guaranteed though.

It has been suggested that the timing chain has jumped a tooth has anyone elso heard of this happening? I thought timing chains lasted for ever. Wouldn't it be hard to start. I am reluctant to spend another £1000 on the van trying to fix it if its unlikely to be the answer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Stuart
 

Alex Crow

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if you have had starting issues - ie long time turning over - this code is normal. could the fuel filter be blocked? is the air filter ok? is that the only code logged?
 
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stu2009

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Thanks for your reply.
The engine starts easily, same as it always has. The van has been serviced regularly. It has been on 3 different computers.

My local garage - cam / crank sync error code

Independent diesel specialists - same cam / crank sync code

Merc dealership. - fault cyl 1 wiring or ecu

I checked the wiring continuity myself with a multimeter from all of injectors to the ecu including resistance between all of the wires themselves. I send the ecu to Ecu Doctor who gave it a clean bill of health. Merc said their computer could only read one fault at a time and they had to fix the first fault to before their computer would read any others. The other computers didnt pick up the fault that the merc dealership did and merc didnt pick up the fault the other two did. Its very difficult to know where to go next.
Maybe the hydraulic tensioner is failing nut there is no noise from the chain?

One other thing. When the van went into the garage with this problem about a month ago it still had full power but would jump back when it hit 3200 revs. It wasnt in limp mode though. Now it still has this problem of jumping back with much reduced power.
 
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Alex Crow

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not sure what 'jumping back' means, do you just mean it hits a ceiling at 3,200 rpm and will not rev further?

the fault code anomaly could well be due to error code definitions. mercedes have their own definitions of P code numbers which do not always tally with generic P codes, especially the P2*** codes. it could be that MB have it right and the others are using a generic and incorrect reference. yes, even snap on scanners have this problem, not that they are much cop!

any chance of the code number/s?
 
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stu2009

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If the van is in neutral it will oscillate between 2900 and 3200 every 0.5 seconds as if it were hunting. If you are driving it is as if some one has stamped on the brakes.

I went back to the garage to day who very kindly gave me a free hour of their time on their snap on computer. Merc did say they can only see one fault code at a time.

Both codes are now showing on their computer
P0201 CYL 1 injector, wiring, ECM. Y76 (this tallies with merc)
P1354 Camshaft / crankshaft synchronisation

However while i was there we rest the codes and tested it all a few times and the fault switched from cylinder 1 to cylinder 4.
I have had a leak back test on the injectors, tested the wiring for continuity and insulation and sent the ecu to ecu doctor.

I really appreciate your advice on this.
 
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Alex Crow

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first of all, MB can see a squillion codes at a time if a squillion codes are logged. secondly, i have dealt with ecu doctor and i find the boss chap to be knowledgeable and helpful, i understand that they have various test rigs and can run ecus on test overnight if need be. that said, and with the best will in the world, they can not always pinpoint ecu faults! but for now we must assume the ecu is ok.

now, the injector wiring - the injectors will probably be wired from the ecu with 4x wires, one wire to each injector and 2x wires split into 4x wires to each injector. i would expect no.1 and no.4 to be paired so it is possible that the joint in the loom is breaking down under load. this would not necessarily show with a multimeter!
 

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Markieboye

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I have a similar issue with my E320CDI engine, but can get to 4200rpm before it wont go any more and also get the P1354 code logged (but only that one)
It's been advised that the timing chain has stretched

HTH
Mark
 
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stu2009

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Thanks for your help it has been fantastic. I am not sure what i can offer you in return. However I am builder. If you ever need any building advise please feel free to ask
 
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stu2009

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Thank you with all of your advise so far!
I have replaced the wire that runs to Injector 1 and 4. Where the wire actually split into two wires was only about 4 inches away from the ecu inside a clear plastic sleeve. I have had the wiring tested fully and the resistance of the injectors seems ok at between 0.3 and 0.5 each. The engine is still running very badly. I have noticed a metallic rattle has started when the engine is started from cold in the morning. It lasts for about 10 - 15 seconds and does appear to be coming from the off side of the engine. Although only having 10 seconds a day to find it doesn't allow me to pinpoint the noise that accurately. Every one says the timing chains dont go on these but could it be? Could the chain be that stretched / worn or jumped a tooth that it would allow the timing of the engine to be that far off with out badly damaging it?
 

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Not sure if it's relevant, but if i remember correctly, the sprinter used to do that if the clutch pedal switch was faulty/sticking, or if the brake lights were stuck on.
Worth checking the clutch pedal switch is working, and brake lights are working.

(PS I think the revs holding at 3200 in neutral is normal, it assumes you're not driving along, so restricts power output).
 
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stu2009

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Thanks for the advise. I have had the clutch and break pedal switches replaced.
I went to another garage today. That makes it 4 who cant solve this one!

I have noticed something else. When i am driving along and i push the accelerator to the floor between about 2 - 3000 revs there is distinct roughness and a noise like tappets if i leave it in gear but take my foot of the gas the noise goes away even though the revs are still up. I am thinking injector or fuel pump??? Though there are no error codes for this.
 

Parky72

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Hi.
My vito 112cdi 99v is running rough and when the revs hit about 3200 the engine revs will jump back violently. If you take you foot of the gas straight away the engine will keep going. If you keep your foot down it will cut out. I have had the injectors, the ecu and the wiring tested. The turbo and fuel pump also seem ok. The cam and crank sensors have also been replaced. The engine starts as usual but runs a little rough, the higher the revs go the rougher it gets and with much less power.
When hooked up to a computer, an error code reports cam / crank synchronisation error. There is 110k on the clock not guaranteed though.

It has been suggested that the timing chain has jumped a tooth has anyone elso heard of this happening? I thought timing chains lasted for ever. Wouldn't it be hard to start. I am reluctant to spend another £1000 on the van trying to fix it if its unlikely to be the answer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Stuart
hi stu, just wondered if you ever got to the bottom of the crank/cam sync issues, ive got the same problem myself.
 

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