Can Anyone Explain...

keefysher

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In this week of weather related events, there is a common theme in respect of stranded motorists, and the same reaction from the authorities / police / highways agency.

The reaction appears the problem, together with lack of knowledge of a scientists famous expression 'if you do the same thing repeatedly, how can you expect a different result. Madness'.

I think a response is the better way forward.

The difference between reaction and response appears lost in the snow, perhaps it should be yellow.

So in the various strandings the traffic has come to a standstill. On the A31 it was due to the glitter crashing and blocking the road. Anyway you have a blockage on a 2 or 3 lane carriageway, separated from the carriageway taking traffic the opposite direction. All the vehicles are facing the same way, traffic builds to make the blockage greater. The hard shoulders are kept clear to allow access to the front of the blockage to then release the blockage after very many hours.

So the road is blocked, or closed, so why not close it and stop more traffic entering it. When it's closed, why not clear the snow from the point of closure to the back of the blockage. Then turn the vehicles around and drive them on the now clear road to the point of closure and hold them, whilst the original snow blockage is cleared, exit the traffic off the junction it was closed at and send them back onto the now opened carriageway they were on. If you follow.

Back in the day I got caught in the snow storm that was the basis of the film 'Perfect Storm'. I was in the mountains at the time and spliced 2 4x4 jeeps together using steel cables and basically span them around and around to get off the mountain. The cops closed the interstate and every entrance had a block under threat of being shot to enable the interstate to be cleared of stranded traffic and make safe and clear to open.

Or is it more fun and media coverage to be the laughing stock of the world?

btw response requires thinking time to consider the action and is how fighter pilots are trained. Reaction is to make lots of noise, grab attention and achieve diddly squat, but people feel they are better than the quiet ones!!
 

LostKiwi

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In weather like this the old adage "Common sense isn't" becomes ever more obvious.
Not just from the authorities but from the sheep that make up the population as well.
 

KennyN

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It is embarrassing , they dont seem to learn form previous incidents.

A work colleague of my wife had to spend Wednesday night in work as the trains / buses / taxis were all off , he walked to the station the following morning and although the website said trains were running , they were not when he got there. He spent four hours on the platform as none of the staff could confirm what was going on. I eventually took him home as he was stuffed if he was relying on public transport, did he live at the other side of the country , nope just 12 miles away in Greenock along the M8.

Same thing with the sister-in-law , her work is 200m from the M8 motorway and her house is 400m for the motorways exit and she has not been home for two days. first night was spent in a Travelodge at the airport and the second at her sons house after being dropped of in one of the airports 4x4.

Kenny
 

umblecumbuz

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When I see the numerous videos taken from a drone of solid stationary traffic on one carriageway, while light traffic zips past on the opposite carriageway, I wonder why the stuck traffic is not allowed to filter onto the opposite carriageway and happily disappear off the screen to the nearest exit.
 

AMGeed

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There is an ongoing story on the "other side" of an HGV driver being forced to take his load of building materials from Basingstoke to Portsmouth and then on to Poole Dorset. He obviously values his job and cannot refuse but its just idiocy on the part of his management to even consider it given the blockages shown on TV.

Apparently he turned up for work this morning and an almighty row ensued but he still had to drive to his intended destinations.
Pretty stupid given there probably won't be a single building worker on site this morning to take delivery of anything.
 

LostKiwi

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I think I would have my manager sign a document to the effect that I had objected on the grounds of safety and that he was responsible for any resulting costs or damages if I was told to go.
 

AMGeed

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So would I, but I think they bullied him into work under fear of job loss.
Personally I'd like to have cracked him one on the chin and told him to shove it, but I always was one for standing up to foolishness.

I'm not sure, given the road conditions, whether sending out a lorry was against H&S directives on risk assessment.

A couple of interesting facts I learned here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43232498
 

Taffy7hfa

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What I see is that some people are better at risk assessment than others. Which of the following attributes were the unfortunate people who became stranded displaying when they started their journeys in the snow ? true grit & determination, Dunkirk spirit, blind optimism, stupidity.
you decide....or maybe they were all just ****** unlucky.
 

Ken_R

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As regards Employed drivers, there is an HSE document, INDG382, Driving at work Managing work-related road safety.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf

The paragraph,
If one of your employees is killed, for example while driving for work, and there is
evidence that serious management failures resulted in a ‘gross breach of a relevant
duty of care’, your company or organisation could be at risk of being prosecuted
under the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007.

would hopefully focus attention on whether a journey was actually necessary?
 
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keefysher

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What I see is that some people are better at risk assessment than others. Which of the following attributes were the unfortunate people who became stranded displaying when they started their journeys in the snow ? true grit & determination, Dunkirk spirit, blind optimism, stupidity.
you decide....or maybe they were all just ****** unlucky.

The A31 blockage had a crashed gritter lorry at the head of it, apparently.

There is a public row on Twitter on that and the A303 one with the OIC Police involved.

No root cause is currently in the public domain.

However the gritters were out 24/7. Primary routes and bus routes are gritted (gritted is an oxymoron as it's rock salt spread). Rocksalt requires the action of friction from traffic to activate it, hence bus routes that have timetabled moderately heavy vehicles travelling them regularly. Primary routes have HGV traffic. It is therefore a reasonable expectation that when travelling on the M27 into the A31 the gantry signs displaying "Spreading in Progress' that the road was in fact open to traffic. Proceed with caution and drive to the conditions notwithstanding, why would a traveller not travel?

The stranding came about as result of an unforeseen event, who would reasonably expect the device spreading the grit to be involved in a decapacitating event in any risk assessment, as far as public knowledge tells us.

That the bus service in Dorset was suspended may have contributed to the lack of traffic over the rock salt.

Even in countries that have snow, the authorities have the power to close roads, or pull over vehicles deemed incapable of travelling further for whatever reason. In those countries locals tend not go out when they know the weather. In fairness, this week in this area in terms of communication, the snow was due last Saturday but didn't arrive, ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Weds, finally arriving late Thursday afternoon.

Although we live in the information and technology age, Mother Nature doesn't play by the same rules.
 
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keefysher

keefysher

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As regards Employed drivers, there is an HSE document, INDG382, Driving at work Managing work-related road safety.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf

The paragraph,


would hopefully focus attention on whether a journey was actually necessary?

The problem with Corporate Manslaughter etc in the case of a driver is a bit like air accidents ie Pilot / driver dead = Pilot / driver error. The 'evidence' would soon disappear in the case of the driver, especially if a 'self employed' provider of services as a lot of delivery drivers have recently become. Research the DPD driver out of B'mouth who died just before Xmas as he would be fined to go to the Drs.
 

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Having worked in both Incident Management and Transport, when the M11 was closed with vehicles stranded some years ago, I gave thought to what 'resources' would have been available within the affected road space.

1. Refrigerated Trailers. Not the ideal place to 'house' the occupants of stranded cars, one would think but, these trailers can often be set to +25C. Indeed, Bananas are normally transported in the range of +18 - +20 degrees.

2. Empty pallets. Whilst perhaps not in the same vehicle, could be utilised for seating/sleeping surfaces within a trailer as at 1, and can also be used to effectively 'build a stairway' into any trailer as at 1.

3. Supermarket Trolleys. Not the sort of thing one pushes around a store. This is an Industry term for the vehicles operated by the likes of Asda, Morrison, Tesco, Waitrose, etc. Just imagine how much food and drink is contained in just one laden, or even partly laden, store delivery. Much of which will have been 'date sensitive' such that when arriving late, would have been put on discount as 'short dated' or rejected and then 'skipped'.

4. B&Q, Wilkinsons, Screwfix, etc. Not an obvious choice but, Disposable BBQ's for heating ready meals. Spades/shovels for digging latrines and cable/cable ties for setting up 'modesty screens' using more spare pallets.

The metal tubs that supermarkets transport/sell fresh flowers in could be used to heat bottled water for hot drinks.

In the space of a couple of miles of stranded traffic there would probably be sufficient 'resources' to provide shelter, warmth, food & drink, to sustain several hundred people for anything up to a week.

What is lacking is both the awareness and the authority of those responsible to access those 'resources'. I say 'authority' in the context that an individual driver does not have the permission required to assist accordingly and that 'Incident Managers' do not have any Legislative powers to require Employers to acquiesce regarding the usage of their property within their vehicles.

Two incidents that came to my attention today. Whilst I haven't had chance to study them in detail. The first was a Greggs driver that gave out product and was applauded by his Company. The second, a driver who was dismissed for theft in like circumstances.
 
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keefysher

keefysher

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There is an ongoing story on the "other side" of an HGV driver being forced to take his load of building materials from Basingstoke to Portsmouth and then on to Poole Dorset. He obviously values his job and cannot refuse but its just idiocy on the part of his management to even consider it given the blockages shown on TV.

Apparently he turned up for work this morning and an almighty row ensued but he still had to drive to his intended destinations.
Pretty stupid given there probably won't be a single building worker on site this morning to take delivery of anything.

A Manager would be aware of the environment in which his business operates. A Manager in the building trade would be aware of the site conditions and operability in adverse climatic conditions.

On the other hand a tw4t calling himself a Manager, as all so many are these days, who bullies staff without reasonable interaction wouldn't have the gumption to call the site agent to establish if goods could be delivered.

I hope the driver gets paid for the re-delivery, and books overtime for his delayed time.
 
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keefysher

keefysher

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Having worked in both Incident Management and Transport, when the M11 was closed with vehicles stranded some years ago, I gave thought to what 'resources' would have been available within the affected road space.

1. Refrigerated Trailers. Not the ideal place to 'house' the occupants of stranded cars, one would think but, these trailers can often be set to +25C. Indeed, Bananas are normally transported in the range of +18 - +20 degrees.

2. Empty pallets. Whilst perhaps not in the same vehicle, could be utilised for seating/sleeping surfaces within a trailer as at 1, and can also be used to effectively 'build a stairway' into any trailer as at 1.

3. Supermarket Trolleys. Not the sort of thing one pushes around a store. This is an Industry term for the vehicles operated by the likes of Asda, Morrison, Tesco, Waitrose, etc. Just imagine how much food and drink is contained in just one laden, or even partly laden, store delivery. Much of which will have been 'date sensitive' such that when arriving late, would have been put on discount as 'short dated' or rejected and then 'skipped'.

4. B&Q, Wilkinsons, Screwfix, etc. Not an obvious choice but, Disposable BBQ's for heating ready meals. Spades/shovels for digging latrines and cable/cable ties for setting up 'modesty screens' using more spare pallets.

The metal tubs that supermarkets transport/sell fresh flowers in could be used to heat bottled water for hot drinks.

In the space of a couple of miles of stranded traffic there would probably be sufficient 'resources' to provide shelter, warmth, food & drink, to sustain several hundred people for anything up to a week.

What is lacking is both the awareness and the authority of those responsible to access those 'resources'. I say 'authority' in the context that an individual driver does not have the permission required to assist accordingly and that 'Incident Managers' do not have any Legislative powers to require Employers to acquiesce regarding the usage of their property within their vehicles.

Two incidents that came to my attention today. Whilst I haven't had chance to study them in detail. The first was a Greggs driver that gave out product and was applauded by his Company. The second, a driver who was dismissed for theft in like circumstances.

I read about the Greggs driver, fantastic publicity, for free

Hopefully someone will quickly employ the thief who showed initiative, and name and shame the former employer.
 

Ken_R

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Research the DPD driver out of B'mouth who died just before Xmas as he would be fined to go to the Drs.

I read about the DPD driver. A sad story. I did sort of 'research' these 'self-employed' parcel delivery drivers on another forum some years ago.

The 'vibe' I got was that the vehicle insurance rates were horrendous and, it was a case of turn up at 07.30 (ish), and if your face fitted, then you might get a 'round', otherwise....................zilch.
 

Frontstep

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Having worked in both Incident Management and Transport, when the M11 was closed with vehicles stranded some years ago, I gave thought to what 'resources' would have been available within the affected road space.

1. Refrigerated Trailers. Not the ideal place to 'house' the occupants of stranded cars, one would think but, these trailers can often be set to +25C. Indeed, Bananas are normally transported in the range of +18 - +20 degrees.

2. Empty pallets. Whilst perhaps not in the same vehicle, could be utilised for seating/sleeping surfaces within a trailer as at 1, and can also be used to effectively 'build a stairway' into any trailer as at 1.

3. Supermarket Trolleys. Not the sort of thing one pushes around a store. This is an Industry term for the vehicles operated by the likes of Asda, Morrison, Tesco, Waitrose, etc. Just imagine how much food and drink is contained in just one laden, or even partly laden, store delivery. Much of which will have been 'date sensitive' such that when arriving late, would have been put on discount as 'short dated' or rejected and then 'skipped'.

4. B&Q, Wilkinsons, Screwfix, etc. Not an obvious choice but, Disposable BBQ's for heating ready meals. Spades/shovels for digging latrines and cable/cable ties for setting up 'modesty screens' using more spare pallets.

The metal tubs that supermarkets transport/sell fresh flowers in could be used to heat bottled water for hot drinks.



In the space of a couple of miles of stranded traffic there would probably be sufficient 'resources' to provide shelter, warmth, food & drink, to sustain several hundred people for anything up to a week.

What is lacking is both the awareness and the authority of those responsible to access those 'resources'. I say 'authority' in the context that an individual driver does not have the permission required to assist accordingly and that 'Incident Managers' do not have any Legislative powers to require Employers to acquiesce regarding the usage of their property within their vehicles.

Two incidents that came to my attention today. Whilst I haven't had chance to study them in detail. The first was a Greggs driver that gave out product and was applauded by his Company. The second, a driver who was dismissed for theft in like circumstances.


Think of the paperwork.........
 


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