can I put the (twin wheel) rear axle from an old type 410d on a 310d?

[biotec]

Hey, I have a 1994 M reg 310d box van and I'm currently doing a fair bit of work on it because the top end has gone after the timing chain snapped on the motorway. I managed to find someone scrapping a 410d panel van and picked it up for peanuts. I got the 7 month old recon head off it and after taking a few other spares off it I have started wondering what else I can pillage for my van.

My van regularly gets loaded above and beyond it MAM and so a little extra load carrying ability would be nice (whether I have it replated or not). I have measured mounting points for the leaf springs on the 410 and unfortunately the 2 are positioned closer together across the van and the 2 mountings for each spring are further apart along the axis of the van. I am prepared to put in the effort welding/bolting new mounting points onto the chassis on my 310 if that is all I need to do, but the point in my post is to find out whether I'll need to make any modifications to the drivetrain or anything else.

Is the propshaft the same length on the 2 vans?
Is the gear ratio of the two vans the same and will I cause problems with the revs using the 410 axles on my 310?
anything else I should look out for?

any help appreciated.

Nick

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

You are asking for trouble from the ministry if you do. They will spot this straight away as your front wheels will be a differant size and diameter to the rears and you will now be even more overloaded than before as the twin wheel setup is heavier by about 150kgs(I think). Apart from the above I am sure the chassis are different, the sprinter versions sweep inwards to allow more room for the twin wheels and I would think the older T1's are the same.
Again for the sprinters the diff ratios are often the same on the single and twin wheel variant of the same body style
A more practical solution may be to simply swap springs, as you have both kinds you can easily compare dimensions(and blow your tyres up to about 80-90psi as I have always done. I think I may have seen a few vans like this as they do sit particularly tail high so are easy to spot when empty.

 

[battwell]

overweight commercial travelling. hmmm.
dont get stopped by the guy with a moustache on the m6 stafford.
he pulled one of my vans in at around jct 16, weighbridged it, charged us with overweight front axle, overweight rear axle, overweight vehicle overall. 3 charges! My driver got summoned, i got summoned, we both got hefty fines even after putting together a good case.
and to top it off i had to drive 200miles each way to alleviate the vehicle of its over load as he (the moustached guy who drives a volvo estate) wouldnt let it drive away from weigh bridge.
do i sound at all bitter?

 

[daz 585]

for a quick answer..... inner wheel arches are completly diffrent, be cheaper and easier to just buy a decent 410/412, or just keep chancing it lol

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

for a quick answer..... inner wheel arches are completly diffrent, be cheaper and easier to just buy a decent 410/412, or just keep chancing it lol

Only on the panel vans. The truck mentioned here is a box van so no problematic wheel arches here. However I would still recommend not to do it even if it were possible.

 

[biotec]

Thank you all for your suggestions, much more help than I'd anticipated.

They will spot this straight away as your front wheels will be a differant size and diameter to the rears

this needn't necessarily be a problem as I also have the front wheels.

Apart from the above I am sure the chassis are different, the sprinter versions sweep inwards to allow more room for the twin wheels and I would think the older T1's are the same.

The chassis on the crewcab 310 certainly leaves enough room for the inner wheel although on the panel van versions I am sure that you are right.

A more practical solution may be to simply swap springs, as you have both kinds you can easily compare dimensions(and blow your tyres up to about 80-90psi as I have always done. I think I may have seen a few vans like this as they do sit particularly tail high so are easy to spot when empty

Both excellent suggestions. I think I'll take the first one, but I'll have to decide whether I do a straight leaf spring swap (fairly complicated due to differing mounting points) or simply take the bottom thick leaf out of the 410 springs and insert it into the existing ones on my 310 (simpler). As for the tyre pressure, my tyres are probably already a little strained as they need refilling rather more frequently than I remember on previous commercials I've driven and so I think I'll keep them at around 65-75psi and stick to more reasonable speeds.

overweight commercial travelling. hmmm.
dont get stopped by the guy with a moustache on the m6 stafford.
he pulled one of my vans in at around jct 16, weighbridged it, charged us with overweight front axle, overweight rear axle, overweight vehicle overall. 3 charges! My driver got summoned, i got summoned, we both got hefty fines even after putting together a good case.
and to top it off i had to drive 200miles each way to alleviate the vehicle of its over load as he (the moustached guy who drives a volvo estate) wouldnt let it drive away from weigh bridge.
do i sound at all bitter?

thanks for the heads up, I've recently brought a trailer to aleviate my overweighing problem. I currently have a 13kva genny mounted in the box so even with no extra load I can't be too far of the MAM. The trailer will take a 1/2 ton of metal out the back of my van so I should have less problems with sagging back end. It also means I'll save on fuel as I wont be carrying the generator around when it's not in use. If you don't mind me asking what was the damage when your driver got caught overweight?

inner wheel arches are completly diffrent, be cheaper and easier to just buy a decent 410/412, or just keep chancing it lol

sorry for the confusion but my van is a chassis cab version with a box on the back, so it has no wheel arches. Also I am talking about pre-sprinter vans here which didn't have a 412 model.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

this needn't necessarily be a problem as I also have the front wheels.

The chassis on the crewcab 310 certainly leaves enough room for the inner wheel although on the panel van versions I am sure that you are right

You may have the wheels but will the front hubs be interchangable as the wheel bolt spacings are different on the 5 bolt 3 series and the 6 bolt 4 series!

I know the chassis are a bit wider on the sprinters as I have swapped a luton body from a T1 to a sprinter but the sprinter chassis's are definitely narrowed as they pass the wheels on the twin wheeler. Perhaps a sightseeing tour with a tape measure is necessary?

thanks for the heads up, I've recently brought a trailer to aleviate my overweighing problem. I currently have a 13kva genny mounted in the box so even with no extra load I can't be too far of the MAM. The trailer will take a 1/2 ton of metal out the back of my van so I should have less problems with sagging back end

To be honest, the ministry weighbridges are quite common and you probably pass many without even noticing so be carefull if you are a habitual overloader. We all get stuck with a load we wish we hadn't agreed to from time to time but some people take the p**s. I read in commercial motor last year about a 3.5ton van stopped at a checkpoint that was weighed at 7175kgs. Be carefull with the trailer as depending on what you use it for you may need a tachograph to tow it legally for commercial use and this too can put you into the catagory of needing an operators licence. If I were you I would be getting proffesional advice on this before it gets you into trouble.

By the way, if your tyres are going down you have slow punctures. Mine rarely need topping up even though the rears are run at 90psi and I have run at these pressures for over 1/2 million miles with no problems.

 

[Blobcat]

Be carefull with the trailer as depending on what you use it for you may need a tachograph to tow it legally for commercial use and this too can put you into the catagory of needing an operators licence. If I were you I would be getting proffesional advice on this before it gets you into trouble.

I will agree with that, friend of my brothers was done in Carlisle for having an empty transit van and a 4 wheel car trailer on the back. Although he was empty they took the line that he would require a tacho if he was loaded. My brother then went out and fitted tachos to his towing transits.

 

[battwell]

overweight penalties.
driver got £500 fine for not checking the load
i as the owner operator got £2000 for allegedly authorizing the load.
the vehicle was 15% overweight
in fact the fault lied with the collection where they understated the load weights. (unit weight)
my long wheel base sprinters are now all placarded as max payload 1050kg so as long as we only fill up with polystyrene or feathers were ok.
if you have a luton or a box of any sort go to a public weighbridge with full fuel, driver and normal kit carried, no "load".
get weighed. make a note of how much vehicle can carry.
youd be amazed how little some of these will carry legally

 

[407man]

Hi I'm trying to source a 310/410 to use for an engine transplant into my old 407. Just wondered if you (Biotec) would have any bits left over that i could use?
Regards James

 

[biotec]

unfortunately I was told when i got the 410d for parts that the bottom end had gone. I therefore took the head off to use in my van and dismantled the bottom end with no regard for putting it back together. Throughout the stripping I had a thought in the back of my head that the engine was generally in far better condition than mine but I ignored it. To my horror, after taking the journals and crank out, I realised that all that was wrong was two piston rings on no.5 had snapped. I hadn't marked where any of the pistons went, where any of the jornals sat, etc. And so now I have a complete bottom end in bits, unable to put it back together.

You are welcome to take the block, pistons, crank, etc after next week when I have finished scavenging but you will need a micrometer, a bore guage and A LOT of patience if you are going to get it back together again. Obviously on 1 piston 2 rings need replacing.

I have a lot of other parts but I need to decide what I will keep for myself and what I will sell.

 

[407man]

oh well that's a shame. Thanks anyway but I don't think I will have the patience required! if you do decide to get rid of any bits please let me know jl2s at hotmail.com Cheers