Car Quality / Service Quality

[Retired]

My satisfaction with Mercedes is dropping rapidly. I have owned a 98 E240 Estate since new and its been reliable. I've had it regularly serviced and only had to replace the items you would expect, brake pads, discs etc.

Recently I noticed the well documented rust problem. My dealer took pictures, referred the matter to Mercedes and got permission to do the necessay work. This was given. Waited for a convenient time and booked the car in to have the work done. Dealer informs me that the permission to do the work is only valid for one month so we have to go through the whole authorisation loop again. Dealer apologetic and could tell from his manner that he thought the Mercedes process pretty daft.

Have now discovered car needs a new exhaust ( no issue with this, its the original thats on the car at the moment). I do have an issue with the fact there are apparently no exhausts in this country, either in the warehouse or at dealers, nor are there any in avaialble from Germany. Again dealer aplogetic and embarassed not to be able to supply what can only be described as a routine replacement part.

I was considering buying a new E class, now I'm not so sure. We don't have these prblems with our other car, an ageing Toyota.

 

[Sanny]

Don't but the new E class - I own one and it is the worst car I have ever owned!

Ask your dealer about the service pack for older cars - I got a quote for a 2001 C class and it works out at just over £500 per year for parts and labour plus it also includes MOT etc.

Worth considering on an older car and MB don't seem to be letting customers know about it.

 

[Retired]

Thanks for the 'service pack' suggestion. I'll discuss with the dealer.

As my car is more than six yrs old dealer gives me a 40% reduction in labour costs and 10% off parts. Not sure if this is a Mercedes initiative or is offered by the dealer in return for having had my car serviced by them since new. In any case it makes dealer service a more viable option for an older car.

Sanny, what problems have you encountered with your E class?

 

[Sanny]

OK, here goes,

Navigation failure at 1 week. GPS unit replaced but cuased electrical glitch which caused temporary Comand Unit shut down and reboot around 6-7 times per day. Took 6 months to resolve problem. Problem was resolved by sending to another dealer who said the local dealer hadn't updated software when replacing unit.

Vibration and buzzing through brake pedal. Local Dealer says nothing wrong.

Severe vibration through brake pedal at 6 months. Local dealer said nothing wrong despite 3 visits. Alternative dealer said worn suspension bushes which were found within 30 secs of driving car. Bushes replaced and no further problems. Buzzing through pedal is a characteristic of the SBS system and there is nothing MB can currently do.

Electrical problems casing Comand unit to start everytime car unlocked. Unit could only be shut down by starting car and then switching off and removing key. Local dealer finally fixes fault after 6 attempts. They kept giving me the car back without checking if the problem was fixed! Fault raced to faulty navigation dvd unit which caused Comand to power on.

Car losing power, and very rough/sluggish at low speed and when accelerating. Local dealer said nothing wrong despite road testing the car. Service manager says that when a car comes in this often, there is either something wrong with the car or the customer, and he can't find anything wrong with the car! Car taken to another dealer 10 miles away (at the suggestion of customer service) who immediately find problems with ECU, Air Mass Sensor and a faulty catalytic converter.

Customer service say they have many problems with E class and that the lesson for MB is that they should test the components more thoroughly!!

Car now awaiting recall letter for SBS pump problem which has resulted in a major recall of a number of MB cars. Car booked for visit to Dealer to resolve.

I also have had two S classes which have been replaced within 18 months as they experienced significant engine/drivetrain problems. One was replaced by a BMW 7 series (brilliant car, outstanding customer service) and a Maserati Quattroporte (only two weeks old but still makes my hair stand on end everytime I start it.

My family has been buying Mercedes for over 30 years but will never spend money on the marque again.

If you can live with the looks buy a 5 series - in my opinion it is a better car than the E class.

 

[Unleashed]

Nice Maserati! Very cool car.

Such a pity Daimler-Chrysler have turned this way, what a way to wreck such a well known company. They're putting in the bin nearly 100 years of brilliant work just to please some pompus fatcats who want more money in their own pockets. Such a shame.

 

[Morzine]

The Seven series has been a runaway success, outselling S class as expected. The five series has had excellent reviews and the latest three just adds to the club.

Now the new S class due out in Germany in the autumn has taken the I drive route from BMW and the back looks a tad like the seven too, hmmm. The e needs some serious sorting out or else the customers will never be back.

Customer service for Merc seems to be ok here in Germany but you guy in the UK suffer amazing differences between dealers.

The old saying once a merc driver always a merc driver is not often heard nowadays.

As for where my next 35k on a car is likely to go, I don't know but I'm not convinced it'll be another e class.

M.

 

[Retired]

I was heading for a new E class estate as a replacement for current car for several reasons:

the current car has been very reliable,

it may not be the most agile car but I?ve enjoyed driving it and I assume the new one will be at least as good,

it has a large load capacity and seven seats.

Sanny?s list of problems, and other reports of poor design and build quality, combined with dealer inability to rectify the issues is a big disincentive to buy again. The technology fitted to the new cars (SBS, GPS etc) seems insufficiently robust, and this coupled with dealer staff inability to deal with these ?non oily? bits causes many of the problems. Different skill sets are required to rectify electronic problems and mechanical issues. Maybe not just a matter of training existing staff but of employing staff with relevant aptitudes.

Have been leaning towards the BMW 5 series estate ( it looks are better, well, less challenging anyway, than the saloon) but it doesn?t have the capacity / seven seats and I?m a bit put off by the perceptions many people seem to have of BMW drivers.

If I?m going to spend £30k to £40k on a car I expect a fully developed vehicle and exemplary service. It rather looks as if Mercedes are nowhere near delivering that.

 

[Sanny]

I'm sorry if I have dashed a dream for you, however I just wanted to be honest about the problems we have had with MB.

I got a call from a MB call centre yesterday inviting me to the launch of the new B class at the local dealer. I explained my feelings towards them and they were astonished. I asked if they really wanted the feedback at the launch. The operative promised to speak to her manager and call me back - not surprisingly, noone called back.

When it is working my E270CDI Avantgarde estate is a brilliant car. However, I can't remember the last time it was problem free although I think it was around 2.30pm for around 5 minutes, of the afternoon it was delivered.

I just wouldn't want anyone to experience the same frustrations I have had with MB.

If you are prepared to take the risk, and have a MB dealer you trust, then take the chance, otherwise stay well clear and buy the 5 series.

 

[littlebrooklyn]

I have to say the more posts I read about the quality of newer Mercedes and also the bad after sales service, the more I am inclined to feel that next year we may trade our car in and go away from Mercedes :-?

I sometimes peek at other forums and don't see way this many problems regarding bad quality and the one issue that worries me the most is the one about rust. I have no idea if it's just the E Class or all the Mercedes, but it certainly puts me off keeping our current car longer than a year or so.

All I have to do now is convince my partner that a change would be a good idea

 

[robbo]

LB,

Personally, I would say that if you have a good one, then keep the car and enjoy it to the full. Seems a bit rash to take a big hit on depreciation and go for another car just because it might go wrong sometime in the future.

The later W203 C classes are reasonably reliable AFAICT. Dont forget that most people post on forums when they have a problem!

 

[pascal]

I would agree totally with Robbo

The Lexus and BMW forums in the US are full with the same stuff as here.

 

[andrew nicholls]

cdi estate 2002

havingjust spent £2100 on my car for new cats new steering arm joints and 50 000 serviceand be told i need new self levelers i would do what my brothers done and buy a lexus my first 280 te is still on the road .

i have a courtesy carr at preasent its gplate 280e with 260 000 miles

my current car hasnt made 50 000 yet

andrew nicholls

 

[littlebrooklyn]

LB,

Personally, I would say that if you have a good one, then keep the car and enjoy it to the full. Seems a bit rash to take a big hit on depreciation and go for another car just because it might go wrong sometime in the future.

The later W203 C classes are reasonably reliable AFAICT. Dont forget that most people post on forums when they have a problem!

Hi Robbo

Yes I guess you are right, but it is a worry when you keep reading about rust on pretty new cars. We had our Peugeot 206 for 5yrs and we never had one single problem with it, the bodywork was perfect.....you know some days I wonder why we traded it in :lol:

 

[robbo]

LB,

What year is you C200?

 

[zephyr]

BMW vs Mercedes

I've a 1990 500SL, bought privately. Used to get it serviced at Merc dealers. Mentioned a slight misfire and some small coolant loss at one service and was told that they thought the head gasket might have failed. £3,500 for them to have a look. I politely declined their kind offer an tried a second Merc dealership. Same story, only they reckoned that there?d be some piston damage, so it could cost me £6,000. Then took the car to an independent garage ? they found two leaking hoses and an inappropriate set of spark plugs (fitted at the previous service!). Cost me about £150. I?ve done around 80,000 miles since then with no other problems. But then I haven?t been back to a Merc dealer since.

BMW on the other hand?..Prior to the SL I had a 730i bought from a fleet-disposal company. It wouldn?t start one day, took it to a BMW dealer who identified a loss of compression on five or the eight cylinders ? time for a new engine. The dealer phoned BMW UK and then announced that even though the car was well out of warranty (4 years old and 105,000 miles on the clock), they didn?t want me to be disappointed with my 7 series, so they would replace the engine free of charge.

It seems to me that Mercedes should out-source its after sales service to BMW. (And BMW might want to think about using Mercedes engines!)

Buy a BMW!

 

[996jimbo]

BMW on the other hand?..Prior to the SL I had a 730i bought from a fleet-disposal company. It wouldn?t start one day, took it to a BMW dealer who identified a loss of compression on five or the eight cylinders ? time for a new engine. The dealer phoned BMW UK and then announced that even though the car was well out of warranty (4 years old and 105,000 miles on the clock), they didn?t want me to be disappointed with my 7 series, so they would replace the engine free of charge.

I think you'll find that BMW had a major problem with their v8's - something to do with Nicosil cylinder liners corroding and knackering the engines. It was a design fault hence they replaced evryone's engines. Still, the fact that it was a known problem doesn't detract from the fact that they accepted responsibility and replaced your engine despite the age and mileage.

Range Rover had a similar issue with their earlier 4.6 V8's (ironically before BMW bought them and supposedly came up with a fix) and as far as I'm aware it was tough luck on the owner.

 

[zephyr]

I think BMW were trying to keep the cylinder liner issue quiet - I looked at a load of older-shape 740s where it's quite common and well-known, but this was the (then) newer shape on which they'd supposedly cured the issue. I was happy with a new, free engine though.

Had a Merc dealer charge me £4 for filling the washwipes at one service. I'd only refilled them a day before the service and asked why they'd done this. I was initially told off for filling them up myself the day before a service, until I pointed out that it is an offence to drive without any wash wipes. I was then told that using non-Mercedes branded wash wipe fluid could result in a fire. He was at a loss as to how exactly this might cause a fire, but there you go.

 

[big x]

Nikosil linings where and still are found on many makes,certain Jags had problems with premature bore wear.
The problem was traced to a certain UK refinery in the NE producing petrol with high levels of sulphur AFAIK.In the states imported cars have steel liners so they can run on this type of low quality petrol.BMW made the mistake of assuming that like in Germany high sulphur content had been phased out years ago on environmental grounds.
Sort of reminds me of the time a German aerospace company supplied parts to NASA assuming logically the tech specs where in Metric whereas NASA where still using Imperial measurements... 1 3/8" etc,when the parts arrived for the shuttle nothing fitted !
BMW switched over to tougher Alusil.I've seen these later engines with over 200k running without problems.The IL 6 BMW engines however suffered nikosil problems right up to oct 98 build in the 5 series.

adam

I think you'll find that BMW had a major problem with their v8's - something to do with Nicosil cylinder liners corroding and knackering the engines. It was a design fault hence they replaced evryone's engines. Still, the fact that it was a known problem doesn't detract from the fact that they accepted responsibility and replaced your engine despite the age and mileage.

Range Rover had a similar issue with their earlier 4.6 V8's (ironically before BMW bought them and supposedly came up with a fix) and as far as I'm aware it was tough luck on the owner.

 

[Ramius]

I used to own a 320i BMW. Hated the dealers with absolute passion!

On a routine service I was charged for new wiper blades, washer additive and dust caps for the missing two from the wheels. They supplied four to make sure they were all the same!!!!!!!

Just to add the blades were Halfords specials changes about a month prior. Made me sick and after two years of robbery I left BMW and havnt had one since. Again, each to their own and you have to take as you find.

Now I drive MB and plan to stay with them. I dont use dealers and always drive an older car that has full SH and low milage when I buy them. 300TE 24 - 1991 142k now and goes like a dream. No rust issues to worry about and pretty much all teething issues are long since resolved. New cars cost to maintain the warranty. Oh yeah, depreciation isnt an issue I worry about either any more.

Me....Ill stick to my old yet faithful W124's I think.

 

[littlebrooklyn]

LB,

What year is you C200?

It's a 2003 model robbo.

Lyn