dealership and craftmanship

[kit820]

I often hear on this forum about how people are dissatisfied with their dealership- expensive bills and poor repairs. Here in Hong Kong where it helds the current record for having the highest density of mercedes on the road, things are a little different.

Buying a brand new car here ain't cheap due to the high tax but the good thing is, the one and only official MB dealer here 'ZUNG FU' provides an excellent and reasonably priced service. For example, my w210 is now at their body workshop for a full respray after almost ten years of being driven in Europe and later here in Hong Kong. The original paint isn't bad at all but at 18,000 hk dollars or 1,200 GBP, a full panels off respray consisting of seven coats of underpaint all carried out inside the dealer's facility, with warranty is something just too hard to resist.

For another 700GBP, I could get a set of new AMG 17'' alloy wheels (the latest type) with a set of michelin tyre. 1000 GBP would get me a full set of AMG or Carlsson aerodynamics fitted and for 800 GBP, AMG handling could be had and again all installed. I am really spoiled of choices. Naturally, you may now think of me as a lucky so and so but just like a movie twist, my past has come to haunt me.

At the start of this year just before moving to Hong Kong, my 1967 MGB GT underwent a major overhaul at a reputable MG specialist in London recommended by the MG owners club. They have worked on my car a few times before. The job this time included a full engine rebuild or to be exact, the term used was ' completely remanufactured to unleaded spec'. Once completed, the car was shipped out to Hong Kong and after its arrival here, it immediately went in for its full body restoration. Up till now, since having its so called completely rebuilt engine installed, the car has done no more than 80 miles all on test drives.

Unfortunately in the one longer test drive that the MG had (which was its first journey to the local vehicle examination center), there was considerable pinking and the engine would stall. After focusing on the timing and carburettion without satisfactory result, my mechanics here turned to the cylinder head. Alarmingly, a new valve job is needed. Then worse still, looking at the pistons, they all look well used with considerable gap between them and the block itself. Besides external clean up, respray and the fitting of new gaskets, there is no other evidence that the engine had indeed been 'remanufactured'. Amid such findings, I have asked my mechanics to cease working on the vehicle pending the response of those who supposedly had carried out the job for me earlier this year at just over 1000 quid. Of course photographs have been taken and if necessary, I can appoint an independent expert to examine the engine and give me a full report. How this would develop remains to be seen as the cylinder head was only taken out a couple of days ago but if you thought that I was a lucky sort, then please think again.

Any advice on how I could resolve my current predicament is welcome.

regards

kit

 

[SLinKyjoe]

i hope you have at least posted the second part of that on the MG Owners forum too. that may help you with MG advice.

i would assume the cowboys who did your car were fully aware you were taking it to hong kong. that way they probably dont care anyway. its not as if you are gonna ship it back is it?

take a day off and call in at the UK embassy. if they are a bit short of work, or in fact need a distraction from the China/EU bra wars, then maybes someone there would be interested. a call from an embassy to a dealer in London may well have someone taking lots of sharp intakes of breath and a few sleepless nights.

or they may just say, nothing we can do old bean, would you like milk in your tea? etc. worth a trip down tho, dont you think?


thats said, you discription of the engine sound like a new 1967 MGB fully built brand new commited workforce type anyway. (i jest)

 

[kit820]

I haven't contacted anyone from the MG community yet as I am giving those London guys a chance to look at the photos and give me their response but just in case I am being really daft here, ie can't tell a new engine from and old one, photos have been attached on

http://community.webshots.com/user/kit820

under engine section. See the photos and tell me if I am wrong. Milege so far is 70 on the clock.

In two hours time, I shall be hearing from them. I hope they will not be giving me a movie script.

 

[stwat]

That engine clearly hasn't been rebuilt!!!!! There is years of carbon buildup and crud. The valves would look much cleaner, with nicely reground seats. The pistons crowns also have years of accumulated crud on them!!!! Ect, ect.

And they say it has been, "completely re manufactured to unleaded spec", Yeah right, its been just been tarted up and made to look nice and new on the outside only!!!!!! I agree with Slinky, they just thought they'd get away with it because they knew the car would be half way round the world.

If i was you id be spitting flames!!! I hope you manage to sort it all out, and please keep us informed with the progress.

Regards,

Stu

 

[tom7035]

I would reiterate SLinKyjoe's comments entirely! A quiet telephone call to the firm from a Diplomat (better still, a curt letter, but that may be pushing it a bit - but you never know!) I think would be worth more than a hundred lawyer's letters!
Good luck with it.

 

[kit820]

Thanks for your support,

Another night of ****** insomnia! The guy from the UK garage told me that this could be a problem coming from the oil breather system. IE, the valve that's supposed to suck out the crankcase gas was also pumping oil. This oil the gets into the inlet manifold, eventually the head. I am no mechanic, but as far as I know, yes... oil breather can indeed suck a few drop of oil in its operation but never these much. And if indeed the fault was down to the oil breather sucking in oil to the cylinder head, then again this indicates serious problem at the bottom end, surely?

I don't know whether he is desperate, mucking me about here thinking I am just a slighlty better off idiot who knows absolutely nothing about car or a bit of both. He sounded so helpful and after discussing the possibility of shipping the engine back to him then concluding that it was unfeasible, I just lost the ommph and thought about dropping the case. Perhaps that was his tact. Sticking on his ground, sounding all sympathetic, making me offer that really wouldn't do much to me. Maybe I should start being firmer.

What really insulted me was how he just ridiculed the opinion of my own mechanics here in Hong Kong. MGB enigne is a stright forward unit and any body knowing a thing or two about car can easily tell a good piston from a bad one, let alone mechanics. How dare him! So whilst suffering from insomnia, I reminded myself that I must sort this matter out and not appease with them blokes. I also sent the photos with an e-mail to the MGOC asking them for their opinion. I then e-mailed this chap from this cowboy garage telling him what I had just done. I also told him that I will get the AA out just to look at the engine and give me a full report.

As soon as I get the AA report and if my suspicion was proven, then I shall take my steps from there, ie. demanding an immediate full refund. To enable this, meeting the consular is indeed one good option. I will of course be sending a copy of the report to the suspected joint and see what substantial thing they could really me offer (which again could only be a full refund) but just in case these people really do not have any dignity nor decency, does anyone know what rights I have exactly in demanding a full refund and whether this refund would be full or in part? Ironically, the engine ran fine before that, by saying fine, I mean it wasn't on its knees.

The only upside right now is that the W210 is progressing well with its full respray and soon I should be back behind its wheel.

yours

kit

 

[Bolide]

Rebuilt engine

A couple of points:

1 - £1000 is not enough for a proper rebuild of an MGB engine

2 - the "specialist" probably did not do the job themselves but subcontracted it

3 - any long delay between you receiving the rebuilt engine & complaining about it will harm your case

I would get an independent engineer's report on the state of the engine now. Assuming you have an invoice, letter of agreement or anything to describe the "work done" in London, you can compare & contrast that with the current state. Armed with that, approach the dealer & express the fact that you do not consider the work was done as described. Ask for a complete refund. If they refuse, take them to court

Bear in mind that if the work done, as they specify it on the invoice, is not "complete remanufacturing" then you may not have a case. The invoice, which you paid, should set out what was done

The issue is, was the work done as stated on the invoice the same as the work as delivered to you? For example, if they billed you for pistons, does the engine have new pistons?

If the company was recommended by the MG Owners Club ask the Club if they have a means of settling or making complaints. I know the TR Register does but by the time I thought of that with my TR horror story the person in question was no longer a "recommended supplier"



Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Old Bentigger]

I am really sorry to hear of your troubles, Kit! If I may say so the advice given by Bolide seems excellent ,and I hope you have success. Threatening to sue in the small claims court , and being prepared to do it, works well in my experience. So does adverse press publicity , or an adverse report to a one - make car club , or even the local Trading Standards people if there is misrepresentation . You should have seen Lancia UK jump when I got "Which?" on to them . I am sure you wont take the advice to involve the British Embassy too literally : taking up consumer complaints in the home country is not in general what Embassies or consular officials do !

Your plaint struck a responsive chord with me because my 1985 300 SL spent the first 15 years of its life being looked after by the famous Zung Fu company ( there was a good article recently in the magazine on the company and its sponsorship of the Macao Grand prix ), and they clearly did an excellent job. The car documents were lost when the vehicle was shipped back to the UK by the original owner : no problem, sir, we will reconstitute them from our records. I have a Zung Fu plate inside the lid of the glovebox and Zung Fu rear wheel rubber protectors with Chinese dragon devices .

I just wish I could find someone in the UK to look after the car to that standard (I know there are some) but as someone who works and travels abroad frequently I find that with some honourable exceptions it really is "rip-off Britain" where nothing works properly . Not how our ancestors created HK !

Good luck!

Old Bentigger , aka Robin

 

[kit820]

Yes Old Bentigger, I read the articale about the 190 sl. Being a classic car lover, the article has sent me looking round for one. I guess it's good to dream sometime. So far I have only been able to find lots of very good condition SEC series or the 80s SL series cars. Attractive these are but then again I am not living in the UK anymore. Parking here is often an expensive issue as they always lack the space.

Back to the reality, I now got the MG Owners club involved in the case as after all the club has a moral obligation to ensure that their recommended suppliers are living up to the standard. The club was also able to overturn just about every theory the garage has given me since first raising the question. At this stage, I have refrained myself from raising the issue on their MGOC forum as I want to see how the issue concludes. But so far, What really got me angry was just how each time I translated literally word to word what my Hong Kong mechanics said to me, these guys back in London would just ridicule what they heard and in the end, even reduce to saying: I don't think your guys (Hong Kong mechanics) know how to fix these cars pretty well. Frankly British Classic cars are simple machines and their comments, both desperate and offensive. As the issue may take a little while, I guess I would just have to leave this to the professional then take actions thereafter.

In the meantime, I continue to look forward to my freshly repainted W210 and the controversial MGB. Both should be ready in matter of days.

Will continue to update as the situation develops. Thanks for all your comment and support.

 

[kit820]

Finally

Comparing to luke.harrigan?s experience (Terrible dealer service... 2 of them!), I do consider myself lucky with the good level of service offered by my dealer.

On the W210:

I dropped by at the dealer this afternoon and everything looks great with the car. The respray is now complete with the side skirts, bottom lip on the front and back bumper being all colour coded. The remaining jobs include fitting and adjusting the doors, bonnet, boot etc as well as giving it a good polished finishing.

The only problem concerns the fitting of later type rear light cluster which in contrast to my initial thought does in fact require some 'fiddling'. The dealer seems a little apprehensive about carrying out the conversion. So if it is proved to be too complicated, then at worst I just have to put on the old unit and flock off this brand new unit. Past threads have indicated that the swap can be done so let's just see.

As for my MGB:

The car is now running. The repair cost was very reasonable amid the cheap labour and no VAT!!! The quality is good too. If parts supplying wasn?t a problem, it seems having the car restored here locally could have produced a good result.

The case is now being dealt with by the MG owners club and soon, the garage concerned will no longer remain on the club?s list of recommended suppliers. This to me is already a very good result. As per any financial compensation, this would be much more complicated and potentially fruitless given the resources needed to begin the necessary proceedings. I also lack the time or energy to be engaged in such a thing. In the strange twist however just as my MG was being repaired, the garage concerned had voluntarily sent me a set of piston rings. I am not sure whether this is their formal apology, admission of their error, cheap way of getting away with it or a mixtures of all the above. I now consider the case closed.