Deposit paid - red flags about trader's attitude?

[sausage]

On Saturday when I sat down to do a deal the owner of the dealership he asked me 'where I wanted to be deal wise', i.e. how much I wanted to pay for his and how much I wanted for the trade in. We didn't agree a deal at that point because at that time I was not 100% certain I was going to change cars. By Wednesday when I was ready to pay a deposit did they not want to do a deal. I had to pay the asking price and this morning that fact combined with a few other niggles has left me feeling a little uneasy. Let me explain:

The owner and his sales person did give me a trade in price for my car on Saturday, then on Wednesday the salesperson that I finalised the deal with made out that he thought they were paying too much and he said "I even phoned the boss and asked 'have you got the right car'?" referring his boss to what he thought was a ludicrously high trade in price. I suppose he was trying to establish a strong position to negotiate on, and despite the owner on Saturday asking me what my 'ideal deal' was, now the salesman would not budge on their price.

When I spoke to the owner on Monday and I said I was going to email him with a list of items I wanted to discuss about the car, and that I had some questions about the FSH, and I wanted the VIN to verify the engine number. He then said "If there are issues then you should walk away. We have had customers like you before with lists of issues, and it rarely goes well, we don't want that kind of business and in that case this probably isn't the car for you". We discussed a few items quickly and he claimed I said he was being unreasonable about one item, when actually I had said he was being reasonable, and I had to quite forcefully say "NO, I said reasonable, not unreasonable" I had to play down what I had just said and placate him in order to keep the sale on track, for me this is a manipulation of the relationship to establish dominance and subservience. I have seen it before with traders who want to control the relationship and once established in that way they can further use it in the event of any difficulties that may arise.

Finally, the first sales person I spoke to said they would help with transferring the my personal plate so I could drive away with my plate on the car, sales person who took my deposit said this won't be able to be done.

I suppose at the heart of this it is a concern about what are these people going to be like to deal with if there are any post sales issues.

There are 504 Autotrader reviews
98% are 5*
1% are 4*
1% are 1*

The car meets a lot of my criteria and one of the main reasons I went ahead is that it was one of only a few with a panoramic roof with FSH/milage/age that I wanted and is only 25 miles away. It is a bit more than the other similar cars, but most didnt have the panoramic roof.

What they have agreed to address:
1) Refurb alloys
2) Valet and MOP
3) Replace wipers
4) The binnacle shows the bonnet as open, they will fix that
5) One of the adjustment buttons on the electric seat makes the seat go forward whether you press back or forwards, they will fix that
6) "Will see if we can find some floor mats"
7) Oil service
8) Mechanical inspection/check over and address issues (I am slightly cynical on this point).

Which doesn't feel like much.

Maybe I am just suffering post-deposit jitters. Any thoughts any one? Am I being over sensitive/over thinking this?

 

[grahamcol]

Sorry to hear this. I'm very surprised you paid a deposit at all given the treatment you received. No way would l have entertained that. However what's done is done. If you paid by card I'd try to stop the payment somehow. Can't imagine them treating you any better should post sale issues occur. Also name and shame please.

 

[Jasons76]

in my opinion if it doesn't feel right it generally isn't right,you have to be completely happy otherwise there will always be a niggling doubt and you wont enjoy it,you wont get the mats and i doubt they will do a proper inspection and i doubt they will do the service i take it this is not a mercedes dealer,so how are they going to fix the electrical faults without it going to a dealer or specialist so they will probably be done on the cheap,if i was you i would walk away and bide your time im sure another car will come up eventually.

 

[sausage]

Sorry to hear this. I'm very surprised you paid a deposit at all given the treatment you received. No way would l have entertained that. However what's done is done. If you paid by card I'd try to stop the payment somehow. Can't imagine them treating you any better should post sale issues occur. Also name and shame please.

Yes, me too. As I get older I sometimes give the benefit of the doubt, but only on occasion and this was one of them.

When I bought my Range Rover from ASM Redditch, I said to the trader "I'll pay your asking price, as long as you make sure it all works". On collection it was clear there was going to be some problems. The list of issues exceeded twenty, and ultimately via the financial ombudsman (FoS), thank you VISA card! I got a £5k refund. So, considering there is only a three month warranty on cars like these, part of me thinks "OK, so what? I can mop up any post sales issues, if serious I can use the FoS to help out".
I'd rather not have to deal with another dodgy, abrasive and rude trader who masquerades as a quality outfit, just like ASM Redditch did. But I want the car

P.S. Edit. Will consider to name and shame later, or update with a good news story depending which way things go.
Interesting to see that I am not the only one that thought this was all a "bit off" though, thanks Graham for your comments.

 

[Crispian]

I read that cap used car prices are up just over 10% from June,he's probably being deliberately belligerent for selling it at a lower price and missing out on a higher profit.

 

[sausage]

in my opinion if it doesn't feel right it generally isn't right,you have to be completely happy otherwise there will always be a niggling doubt and you wont enjoy it,you wont get the mats and i doubt they will do a proper inspection and i doubt they will do the service i take it this is not a mercedes dealer,so how are they going to fix the electrical faults without it going to a dealer or specialist so they will probably be done on the cheap,if i was you i would walk away and bide your time im sure another car will come up eventually.

Yes, I tend to agree with that. I am almost certainly making some allowances towards the trader because after 18 months couped up in the house I find I doubt myself more than I used to. (For clarity - I was couped up due to the covid lockdown)

On the plus side the trader has spoken about wanting to get everything right, ensuring that the car is faultless before being allowed to leave their premises and claims to providing great after sales service to ensure remediation of any issues, as their reputation means everything to them and so far the reviews on line do support the idea of a lot of happy customers. Maybe they are just a bit more gruff than I am and perhaps that tripped my heightened senses of alert - perhaps I am needlessly sweating the small stuff and hence my post here.
Regarding the issues they have agreed to address..if they are not fixed, I will walk away.
The bonnet is likely just a sensor/catch and probably takes 5 minutes to fix.
The seat, well, I am not certain that is the kind of thing that can easily be bodged/done on the cheap. It will likely be a loose connection or a new motor. As long as they do not butcher the seat in the process.

As for the mats, yes I expect so too. Inspection, I imagine they will give it at least a once over. It has been MOTd.
Not a mercedes dealer, I did not think I would find an 09 in the main dealer network, had a search, found none, so went to via independent traders.

And let us be honest, they are taking my 10+ year old Range Rover off my hands, I suppose I ought to be grateful and keep my mouth shut ;-)

 

[sausage]

I read that cap used car prices are up just over 10% from June,he's probably being deliberately belligerent for selling it at a lower price and missing out on a higher profit.

Let's hope that is the reason

 

[peterws1957]

I learned 40 years ago to "buy the seller". A seller who tells me we don't want your "kind of business" would have made me walk immediately. There are always vasts amount of SL's for sale.

 

[JBell]

Walk away

 

[KennyN]

What they have agreed to address:
1) Refurb alloys
2) Valet and MOP
3) Replace wipers
4) The binnacle shows the bonnet as open, they will fix that
5) One of the adjustment buttons on the electric seat makes the seat go forward whether you press back or forwards, they will fix that
6) "Will see if we can find some floor mats"
7) Oil service
8) Mechanical inspection/check over and address issues (I am slightly cynical on this point).

FWIW half the things on the above list (1/2/4/5) should have been addressed prior to sale , unless it has just come into the garage and you viewed it before preparation and i fear points (6/7/8) will given lip service only.

If they are willing to sell a car with a seat with a mind of its own and a warning message on the dash i would walk away.

There is probably £1000 of work on the above list if done correctly , maybe more if the seat / bonnet issue needs modules etc.

If it were me i would walk away , loads of decent used car companies out there although it is just a matter of finding them.

K

 

[00slk]

I'm afraid they know you want the car and as you have already paid a deposit they are trying to screw you, hopefully you paid via CC and so you can get the deposit back. As said there are many SL's for sale and it might be more prudent to check out some cheaper private deals as there is a big saving to be had and what issues are found your saving can be put to rectifications.
90% of cars are sold because they are starting to cost money, so they are either traded in, sold privately or taken to an auction, a lot of dealers buy from an auction to keep their stock up, so have to inflate prices to make their business worthwhile. But what ever car we buy Second Hand will always require some kind of work, even new cars have problems. New car manufactures don't make money on their cars they sell, its made through parts they sell to repair their cars and of course the finance company help keep the dealers afloat too
Just buy a car off someone you have a nice experience with
Good luck sausage

 

[sausage]

Thanks for the input. I cannot disagree with anything said here.

Finding a 2009 onwards 350 with panoramic roof, fsh and less than 50k miles without clocking up hundreds of miles in travel is not so easy. I'm also keen to deal with a trader so I can part ex the Range Rover and be done with it. I guess all these factors have narrowed it down a bit too much.

 

[mioba]

A trader like that would put me right off with such an attitude.

You need to be patient and the right car will come along. Think with your head.

 

[s5tuart]

I agree with others on walking away if you can retrieve your deposit.
Any attitude other than a helpful one should be met with a refusal to continue and as you point out, future problems are likely to be met with even more attitude once the deal is complete.
Why not try to sell the RR privately? I've always had good results from Gumtree.

Patience is the name of the game. There is a shortage of good used cars and the dealers know it. It will be worth looking at private sales too imho.
It might take a while to find another car but in my own the wait was worth every second once I found "the one"
Good luck mate.

 

[sausage]

Oh lordy ! On the phone to the bank now seeing what options I have.

 

[A.J.]

Oh lordy ! On the phone to the bank now seeing what options I have.

This is all beyond me, what ever happened to 'The Customer is King' ?

 

[sausage]

Stuart, I think I would get a lot better money selling it privately, it has been maintained to the nth level, it's actually quite ridiculous the lengths I have gone to in order to fix things where parts are no longer available... Yes, indeed it is true that a 12 year old top of the range, fully specced Range Rover - has a lot of obsoleted parts that are no longer available anywhere.

P.S.The dealer just called to tell me they do have the mats, they were just removed during a clean - we even had a nice chat!
The bank can get the money back if I want, but I think I will go ahead and wait and see what happens over the next days rather than pull out due to a knee jerk reaction/because of my own prissiness.

As mentioned, the car looks great, low miles, 2 owners, fsh, has the options i want, is the year I want, and is local. They didn't quibble for a moment on doing the repairs to the bits and were very quick to say "absolutely we will fix that". OK, I'm a bit sore about paying the asking price, but I will get over it and on reflection it might be that they dont have a lot of profit in the SL and have offered me higher than they should on the Range Rover.

@kenny, yes, when I saw the car it had only just arrived at their lot.

 

[sausage]

This is all beyond me, what ever happened to 'The Customer is King' ?

It does seem to be a thing of the past doesn't it. I have reminded a few companies of this concept recently, and they took offense at me saying that.

 

[s5tuart]

Stuart, I think I would get a lot better money selling it privately, it has been maintained to the nth level, it's actually quite ridiculous the lengths I have gone to in order to fix things where parts are no longer available... Yes, indeed it is true that a 12 year old top of the range, fully specced Range Rover - has a lot of obsoleted parts that are no longer available anywhere.

P.S.The dealer just called to tell me they do have the mats, they were just removed during a clean - we even had a nice chat!
The bank can get the money back if I want, but I think I will go ahead and wait and see what happens over the next days rather than pull out due to a knee jerk reaction/because of my own prissiness.

As mentioned, the car looks great, low miles, 2 owners, fsh, has the options i want, is the year I want, and is local. They didn't quibble for a moment on doing the repairs to the bits and were very quick to say "absolutely we will fix that". OK, I'm a bit sore about paying the asking price, but I will get over it and on reflection it might be that they dont have a lot of profit in the SL and have offered me higher than they should on the Range Rover.

@kenny, yes, when I saw the car it had only just arrived at their lot.

I'm glad the dealer has modified his tone. That would make me more confident.
I'm a bit like you inasmuch as I usually respond to attitude with attitude ( one of my many failings!)
Price-wise, as long as you can find comparables on the likes of Autotrader then I think it's ok to pay top dollar especially if you're getting a good car and a good px price.
I had to pay full asking for mine but I don't regret it for a second!

 

[A.J.]

As mentioned, the car looks great, low miles, 2 owners, fsh, has the options i want, is the year I want, and is local. They didn't quibble for a moment on doing the repairs to the bits and were very quick to say "absolutely we will fix that". OK, I'm a bit sore about paying the asking price, but I will get over it and on reflection it might be that they dont have a lot of profit in the SL and have offered me higher than they should on the Range Rover.

@kenny, yes, when I saw the car it had only just arrived at their lot.

I am afraid I had to pay full asking price for mine too. Like you the car I bought it was the year I wanted, I didn't want a later year because the power plant was changed to a 1500cc on the later car, it was the colour combination I wanted ant the spec I wanted. The fact that you payed full asking price disappears into pale insignificance the longer you own it so does it really matter that much ?