Diesel Engine on Veg Oil

[jazzenator]

Hi

One of my mates runs his C-class engine on veg oil. He swears by it however his is a ordinary turbodiesle engine without common rail.
The website he refers me to is called www.dieselveg.co.uk
I am also told that this my CDI cannot run on veg oil as it can cause problems with the common rail system. Any thoughts on the idea?
Anyone running theirs on veg oil?
Thanks

 

[Bill312D]

with a full twin tank conversion a common rail can run on veg oil, but if you ever forget to purge it and it gets a little too cold to start it oculd ruin al the fancy pumps and stuff if you try to start it.

 

[Nuclear Bob]

Yes I've tried my C220 CDI on veg - up to around 50% mixture with diesel - no difference apart from starting when cold weather - so keep the veg % low in winter. The mpg is slightly worse, down from about 53 to 50. I would like to hear more if there is any long term effects though. Is corn oil any different?

 

[RFdesigner]

FYI

The Inland Revenue has issued a notice saying they will allow people to 'produce' 2500 litres per annum of bio diesel before they require tax to be paid

I believe it has been taken as, bunging in new veg oil and not declaring it is now legal, so long as it's below the 2500litre limit. Do your own research here please, if the IR come knocking on your door I can't accept liability, I'd check first.

Re mercs, I read you will void warranty by putting veg oil in your merc, which if it's out of warranty makes no difference, the W211s et al will take B5 and that's it before the warranty is done for.

Remember veg oil is thicker than dino-diesel, I read some people thin veg oil with petrol, this thickness is what I 'm worried about re: fuel pumps and high pressure rails.

Otherwise.... I believe it does work, and will probably be going down the biodiesel route, once a few others have done 100k miles plus, I've seen too many "woohoo I'm running biodiesel and it works.. done 1000miles" type comments.

The low pressure diesels seem to be fine, as a CDi owner I'm being more cautious, the CDi engines are not a John Deere!

Oh, and if you go biodiesel do get a new fuel filter ready, veg oil is a wonderful solvent and will make the inside of your fuel tank all sparkly, to the detriment of your fuel filter and also any rubber parts!, so fuel lines may need replacing.

Derek
(who read up about all this recently)

 

[AnthUK]

My E220 cdi runs perfectly well on 50% veg oil. MPG slightly down but hardly noticeable.

 

[RFdesigner]

My E220 cdi runs perfectly well on 50% veg oil. MPG slightly down but hardly noticeable.

How long have you been running on B50 ? (miles)

Derek

 

[jazzenator]

with a full twin tank conversion a common rail can run on veg oil, but if you ever forget to purge it and it gets a little too cold to start it oculd ruin al the fancy pumps and stuff if you try to start it.

Yes I as thought it would but i have also been talking to people who have been running non-CDI merc diesels and they say that the veg oil polymerises under high pressure as it would be subjected to such in the CDI engine.

any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[6speedmanual]

Biggest danger to Cdi systems is damage to the vanes in the high pressure pumps.

If they are not lubricated properly they can quickly break up, passing metal filings through into the fuel rail and injectors. This is why there are stories of very high bills for sorting out breakdowns after wrong fuel put in. Petrol has very poor lubricity compared with diesel.

As for Veg oil, it probably lubricates reasonably well.

Clogging of the injectors through cold/thickened veg oil is more likely to be a problem.

Cutting 50% with diesel is a good idea. Cutting it with petrol is a no-no - the lubricity and the burn characteristics of petrol ar not compatible with diesel engines.


What does jazzenator mean by "polymerising"?

6sm

 

[240D 3.0VNTi]

The vegetable oil will polymerize (change in physical make-up to a plastic/resin like substance) in the extreme pressure of the CDI's common rail.

As stated before, any Biodiesel higher than B5 or any home made vegetable oil at all will void the warranty.

 

[jazzenator]

Hi

Have been away for a while. Polymerisation is the process of joining to small chain compounds ( a monomer) to make it into a longer chain compound ( polymer). This considerably alters both chemical and physical properties. Plastic is a polymer.
I am new to the game of Biodiesel and B5 so would appreciate any explanation of these or a link which I can follow.
Thanks

 

[peodude]

Hi, newbie here.

Looking at this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290182365203

to run on veggie, is this suitable? and also, what other ones are suitable, with a £2000 budget?

 

[jazzenator]

I believe this is a plain turbo diesel so you will have no problems in running this with veg oil. Diesel engines were originally designed to run on veg oil.
Problems arise when you add in common rail injection.
This one shoudl be fine.

 

[peodude]

From a quick check of the reg, is seems it is a D, not a TD.

One less thing to go wrong i suppose, looking good then, soon on my way to free fuel

 

[BlackC55]

How about engine oil?

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=43746

 

[wireman]

Nice clean engine oil will work, diesel ships run on light crude its similar in viscosity, but the ships injectors have big holes and the car type do not, I suspect that trouble with engine oil viscosity may cause damage to the fuel systems of small diesels. There are special multifuel engines out there, they run on anything that burns and find homes in military vehicles etc.
It is common for turbo engines to self destruct when oil sealing problems inject the sump oil into the inlet manifold and the uncontroled fuel quantity gets high enough to run the engine past max rpm.
If you try engine oil make sure it is claen and not black from sump muck, costs more than diesel though.

 

[rf065]

I believe this is a plain turbo diesel so you will have no problems in running this with veg oil. Diesel engines were originally designed to run on veg oil.
Problems arise when you add in common rail injection.
This one shoudl be fine.

Would adding a litre of veg oil to 1/2 or 3/4 tank do any damage to a CDi?
(62 litre tank)
Reason I ask is we only fry stuff occasionally, but getting rid of the used oil is a pain. So if a litre at a time was filtered, sticking in the tank would save dumping it, as long as it's safe?

Russ

 

[euclidb2]

my mate puts the oil out of the deep fat fryer into his old citroen,says it runs ok but it stinks putrid

 

[FIBAMAN]

Nice clean engine oil will work, diesel ships run on light crude its similar in viscosity, but the ships injectors have big holes and the car type do not, I suspect that trouble with engine oil viscosity may cause damage to the fuel systems of small diesels. There are special multifuel engines out there, they run on anything that burns and find homes in military vehicles etc.
It is common for turbo engines to self destruct when oil sealing problems inject the sump oil into the inlet manifold and the uncontroled fuel quantity gets high enough to run the engine past max rpm.
If you try engine oil make sure it is claen and not black from sump muck, costs more than diesel though.

Just a quick note about marine diesels, they do not use light crude, it is too valuable. They actually run on heavy fuel oil, which is the thick black crap left over when everything else has been taken out. This stuff is so thick it has to be heated just to pump it on board where it is stored in heated tanks until needed. Prior to being burned, it is filtered, centrifuged and then heated to very high temp. in order for it to atomise when it leaves the injector.
The largest one that I have run was 9cyls. 900mm bore developing 23,500 bhp there are much larger ones than that kicking around now.
Tip - lube oils are much better than dope if you need to fire up a diesel that is reluctant to start.

 

[Bill312D]

Polymerisation is what occours when cold veg oil passes by the rings on cold starts and contaminates the sump oil. The higher injection pressures involved with cdi's are not a problem for the oil itself. as you can run veg through a CDI with a decent twin tank or even single tank conversion. at the oment though an IDI engine i the best for veg such as on the pre 2000 sprinters, 190's etc. I am quite surpised the 220 CDi is running on 50% veg!! I wouldn't be that brave, you do mean veg not bio right?

 

[AnthUK]

The 220cdi ran on veggie. Sold it now and reluctant to try veg in my 320cdi!