Diesel Owners Only!

[fionanallan]

http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm

Have a look at this...it's nothing new, but it's worth a read if nothing else!
I'm just to scared to try it!

 

[tamrsoft]

Bio-Diesel - is it safe ?

I like most diesel owners have digested several such articles on home bio-diesel made either from mixture methods (as in your web link) or from those enthusiasts that chemical convert used vegetable fats (WVO). However we should bear in mind that they apply these products to the more traditional diesel engines that preceeded the common rail diesel technologies. I have asked the question to several of these organisations as to whether these fuels will run without harm in the modern very high precision diesels. I have never received an answer.
I believe that MB will support the use of bio-diesels as made by the big Oil Companies (made primarily with mineral distilates) but not available in the UK. However vegetable oil does have undesirable glycerin components in it which may have some long term effect on the engine. This article seems more concerned with getting the Excise procedures in order rather than discussing any long term harm/benefits that using bio-diesel may have.
I have asked them this question but I don't expect to get an answer.

 

[Silver Arrow]

I posted this bit a while back when there was a thread on veggie oil, Jeremy Clarkson and duty

My wife's Audi A6 Quattro sport V6 turbo diesel has a bit in the handbook about bio diesel. They don't reccomend more than a 50% mix, especially in winter.

 

[blassberg]

My wife's Audi A6 Quattro sport V6 turbo diesel has a bit in the handbook about bio diesel.

same for W203

 

[tamrsoft]

Silver Arrow

The recommended 50% mix for your wifes Audi would be for commercial bio-diesel (mineral based) not for veggie oil which is a totally different type of fuel. I would imagine they would say absolutely 'NO' to veggie fuel mixes. I'me 200% for veggie fuel but lets get some evidence for its use in modern diesel engines. I have also seen articles about mixing Sunflower with parafin to thin it down but then it was used in an old Landrover engine which would probably burn lard if you could stuff it through the injectors.

 

[maldon]

I think I saw a bit that said no veg in the ML handbook. Bl nuisance really, mate has a restaurant...

I have absolutely no idea why he is not burning the stuff himself.

 

[Silver Arrow]

Tamrsoft:
The recommended 50% mix for your wifes Audi would be for commercial bio-diesel (mineral based) not for veggie oil which is a totally different type of fuel. I would imagine they would say absolutely 'NO' to veggie fuel mixes. I'me 200% for veggie fuel but lets get some evidence for its use in modern diesel engines. I have also seen articles about mixing Sunflower with parafin to thin it down but then it was used in an old Landrover engine which would probably burn lard if you could stuff it through the injectors.

ABSOLUTELY!
The handbook refers solely to commercial biodiesel.

 

[clive williams]

Hi,

I know MB produce a special version of some of their diesel engines for the French market where biodiesel is available with sunflower oil as an ingredient. I thought one of the problems with vegetable oil used as fuel was that it did not contain the lubrication properties of mineral based oils which will be a death knell to a modern high pressure common rail diesel - hence the different spec for the French biodiesel vehicles.

Various diesel engines have been specifically built to run on any(c**p)thing going such as the army's Bedford trucks - they are used in Africa by the relief agencies to run on coconut oil, also some industrial engines.

I have heard that one gentleman in this country runs his Volvo 740? on used chip oil but I suppose he isn't worried about the longevity of it.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[tamrsoft]

It's interesting, all the veggie fuel pundits say that the extra lubrication of veggie fuel is one of its distinct advantages as well as the low sulphur content (which can also be a corrosive agent and increase wear). The main comments that I have seen is the possible contamination of seals in the high pressure circuits and the fuel lines from non-chemically processed vegetable oil. Any chemists out there who can comment ? Also, in many european countries, their governments allow chemically processed pure veggie oil to be used tax free, I cannot imagine the tax greedy UK allowing this.

 

[Silver Arrow]

Interestingly, nobody seems to have suggested mixing in some engine oil with the veggie. (Presumably the old Volvo and Landrover may do this automatically, but it won't help the distributor pump where it's needed.)

 

[pcman_jh]

Diesel owners only

I know of a C250 Diesel (1994 5 cylinder non turbo) that was run on 50% supermarket Veg oil for about 2 years. Just poured it in straight to the tank. Apart from a couple of frosty mornings @ 0'C where it slightly spluttered, no problem. Did have a run of non starts but his turned out to be worn fuel O rings and injector overflow pipes due to the age of the car - once replaced, all OK.

Also know of a person who has a E300 Turbo (1999) (same engine as the C Class but with 6 cylinders) currently running on the same ratio with problems yet.

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone with a CDI based engine due to the different injection system in use, but all it takes is a few pioneers to share their experience. This is unless they fit a dual tank heater system where the car is started on diesel then switched to Veg when hot.

Heard all of this from the horses mouth, who I know/knew very well, so no third party spin with any of this.

 

[blassberg]

I'd be too worried about the paintwork with vegetable oil - you might get a chip in it??

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I used to fill my old A4 with veggie oil all the time - 1998 1.9Tdi 110. Neat. Not treated in any way, just fresh off the supermarket shelf at 45p a litre.

In winter I'd dilute it with diesel, 90%derv 10% veggie as it would be too thick. During summer though it would be fine with 100% veggie.

You could smell the fish and chips out of the exhaust Very distinctive, I can pick out when I'm following a white van man with veggie, its very recogniseable once you know what to look for.

VAGs and Peugeots are considered to be quite safe to do this. Modern common rail systems aren't recommended.

Fords and other cars have weaker fuel pumps I believe, again aren't recommended. Dunno about mercs, older ones should be absolutely fine, but the modern CDI - no no no.

 

[shaggy]

my mate is a diesel pump / injector specialist and he recons he has had cars in with broken camshafts due to using cooking oil due to "lock ups" caused by the oil salidifying (sp?) also knackered fuel pumps
when i asked him he said not to use it in my 1995 c220 d as it is not thin enough especially on cold mornings
he said my type of fuel injector pump (lucas) is not good on cooking oil

now on the other hand i have a mate who runs on cooking oil 75% & diesel 25% and he has tried it in fords/vauxhall/citron/peugeot and never had a failure he gets a 1,000 ltr at a time
the first car he tried (peugeot) would not start so thats when he went to the 75% / 25% mix it has to be said though that all his cars are over 7 yrs old
i also know of 2 artics both daf 95s that run 60% oil / 40% diesel and they are doing 200,000 kms a year with no problem except he changes the fiters (fuel) at half the required interval (eg: daf say every 12k he does every 6k etc) he has not noticed a drop in power when the engine is warm but says the first 5 mins is sluggish after that its the same as regular diesel and he says no drop in mpg (9 mpg all day with or without oil)

i believe all 3 of these people because i know them personally and they have no reason to lie but obviousley someone is misstaken and thats why its so confusing

 

[pcman_jh]

Bosch inline pumps are supposed to be the Holy Grail for Veg oil users

The C250D (5 cylinder engine) and the (up to 1999 incl) E300 (6cylinder engines) all have an inline Bosch pump which is considered to be the Holy grail of pumps for straight supermarket oil poured into the tank.

I assume the C220D, which is quoted earlier as having a Lucas pump, is the rotary type pump and hence known to be weaker with cold Veg oil unless the 2 tank system is adopted (cold start on diesel, then switch to a second tank of Tesco value Veg oil).