Difference Between 229.51 and 229.52 (Engine Oil)

[M80]

My 639 (Viano), with 0M651 (2.2CDI) takes 9 litres of engine oil. It can be good for 24k miles (as there are 9 litres of the stuff in there).

Anyway a while after purchase I replaced it with 229.51, after about 5k miles of use with what ever the previous owner put in.
I used oil bought from MB (Edinburgh or Newcastle via ebay). I believe it was Petronas and what they use in their workshop.

A further 15k miles and I have replaced with 229.52 (from MB Newcastle).
The engine is quieter and markedly smoother. I can still tell when it's ticking over, but it is much nicer than was.

The 229.52 is supposed to give 0.7% better economy, In the real world I can't imagine anyone would notice that. Otherwise though I'm not aware of a great difference in quality, but it feels like it.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[onefortheroad]

.52 is more suited to dpf systems and fuel economy.

Ehn 99 is the best additive in the fuel tbh.

 

[mioba]

Its just a superseded oil spec.

I find my cars always run a tad smoother after an oil change. Makes sense .

 

[EmilysDad]

there was a time when 20w50 went into everything ....

 

[onefortheroad]

there was a time when 20w50 went into everything ....

Gotta move with the times grandpa

 

[Botus]

I was writing something about this subject on another forum.... not checked as Merc spec is rather ambigous (costco does a deal on castrol 10 30 synthetic oil every few months) ...the LL and the other (is it LM) is the only difference in tiny writing on the bottle and about 8 quid at the till)

the fact you appear to find it runs better reinforces the points I was making

modern cars moved to quite different engine oils quite some time ago - look up low SAPS - the two ideas don't mix - old world additives will cause damage - you won't believe me - but they re-engineered materials and design to work with low SAPS changes - the old stuff is not suitable - people need to remember slick 50 and its ilk was for cast iron liners and manu practices years ago if current Merc and BMWs don't run the oil in the book somehow they run funny - I'm not on the engineering team trying to make them break.... but ford have sorted there's if you run the wrong oil the cam belt that runs inside the engine self destructs - they are all up to mischief - I can image the coating on the cylinders magically plays up on purpose

low SAPS oils use totally different set up - the additives in bottles of stuff destroy the additives they now put in modern oils - I get they are lying that its all about looking after emission systems - in my mind its a nice idea they invented - use old oils the engine plays up, don't change modern oils at 2 the year mark and the modern additives self destruct and the car is bin material.... win win

last AMG I looked at the crank looked OK, the rod was nicely bent 2mm curve over its length, and its this that seems to make the light knocking noise, piston was toast - but the bore didn't look too bad - but they said it was trashed and was the third in 3 months they'd seen and were now used to stripping down to the block to have one cast iron liner fitted

ACEA EUROPEAN OIL December 2016

SAPS: Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulphur - old world gunk that made for exceptionally robust engine oils that took mega abuse...
HTHS: High Temperature High Shear Viscosity
DI: Direct Injection
DPF: Diesel Particle Filter
GPF: Gasoline Particle Filter
TWC: Three-Way Catalyst


A/B: – “High SAPS” Gasoline and Diesel Engine Oils

A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines
with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as
defined by the Engine Manufacturer.

A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5
mPas. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in
case of doubt.


'

C: – “Low SAPS” Catalyst & GPF/DPF compatible Engine Oils for Gasoline & Diesel Engines –
Note: These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle’s Fuel Economy.
Warning: Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types – consult the vehicle-
OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as
catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems
and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be
capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPas.
....except its 1/3 as good as OLD High SAPS oils for terrorising the autobahns because this is MUCH lower ...HTHS: High Temperature High Shear Viscosity

 

[Gazwould]

 

[onefortheroad]

229.71 0/20 must be like water .

 

[sonic]

there was a time when 20w50 went into everything ....

I used Duckhams 20/50 oil from the mid 60's to the 90's. Never had an engine failure!

 

[Gazwould]

There is this misunderstanding that much thicker oil provides higher protection .

 

[Botus]

a while after purchase I replaced it with 229.51, after about 5k miles of use with what ever the previous owner put in.
I used oil bought from MB (Edinburgh or Newcastle via ebay). I believe it was Petronas and what they use in their workshop.

A further 15k miles and I have replaced with 229.52 (from MB Newcastle).
The engine is quieter and markedly smoother. I can still tell when it's ticking over, but it is much nicer than was.

Anyone else noticed this?

...with this post in mind I was buying some oil and so got the later 229.52 stuff the other day

my car (V8 quad cam) for at least the last 7 years has had a nasty top end tick at idle - coming from I guess from cam follower wear. One year I'd tried fully synthetic 10 40 and is masked it a little for maybe a thousand miles. Whereas the normal 229.51 when fresh, only masks it a smidge for a few hundred miles. But on either type or any mileage on the oil, its still there, just less in your face for a short while.

starting up on 229.52 the cam follower tick has instantly vanished - VERY strange

 

[Manc Rick]

Mine takes 229.52 but if I don’t check, dealers will dump 229.51 in it. Happened last service at MB Warrington. I raised this with them and they apologised and changed it to the correct spec.

Same when I bought Mb oil from MB Newcastle; I ordered 229.52 but .51 arrived. They apologised and agreed that my car should have .52 - they said it was a genuine error.

I dread the next service. The only time I am 100% is when I change the oil myself, which is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Wighty]

Mine takes 229.52 but if I don’t check, dealers will dump 229.51 in it. Happened last service at MB Warrington. I raised this with them and they apologised and changed it to the correct spec.

Same when I bought Mb oil from MB Newcastle; I ordered 229.52 but .51 arrived. They apologised and agreed that my car should have .52 - they said it was a genuine error.

I dread the next service. The only time I am 100% is when I change the oil myself, which is a sad state of affairs.

Put a sticker next to the oil filler cap ?

 

[Botus]

Put a sticker next to the oil filler cap ?

great idea simple and might be effective - and then there can be no wriggle room if they don't do it right -

I bet they all charge 229.52 and always put 229.51 in everything - at the end of the year a big dealership has 100k in their pocket for the managers bonus - plus cars die faster so they get more work / showroom sell more