1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Does anyone speak P11D ?????

Discussion in 'Motoring Related Discussion' started by Rob76, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Rob76

    Rob76 Senior Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Your Mercedes:
    S211 E280 CDI Sport
    Hi Folks,
    I currently have a work van, but am looking into whether or not it would be cash positive for me to use my own car instead for work......as its a much nicer place to be :)

    Company issued fuel card / Car allowance is available as an option; but for the life of me i cant find out how to calculate the costs/benefits; Does anyone have recent experience of doing so or understand the rules?

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  2. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,585
    Likes Received:
    7,191
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Location:
    Midlands / Charente-Maritime
    Your Mercedes:
    '93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240, 02 R230 SL500 (Malcolm Spec), 04 Smart Roadster Coupe
    Not sure on the fuel card but the car allowance is taxed at your higher rate.
    That means if you fall into the 40% tax bracket you pay 40% of the car allowance in tax.
     
  3. OP
    Rob76

    Rob76 Senior Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Your Mercedes:
    S211 E280 CDI Sport
    That is the only bit that does make sense to be honest!!
    If a fuel card is given / used; can business mileage be claimed back?
     
  4. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,585
    Likes Received:
    7,191
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Location:
    Midlands / Charente-Maritime
    Your Mercedes:
    '93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240, 02 R230 SL500 (Malcolm Spec), 04 Smart Roadster Coupe
    No I don't believe so.
     
  5. Binnedit

    Binnedit Senior Member

    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    121
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Location:
    Smoke on Trent
    Your Mercedes:
    Current: W209 CLK320 A'garde 2003, W211 E280 A'garde 2006 Past: W208 CLK 320, Yr 2000
    Yup

    Van rates are reasonably easy to calculate, as they are flat rate (rather than on a scale system, like company cars). Van rates also include pick up type vehicles - so long as the payload is over 1 ton (from memory). Which is why you see plenty on the roads these days.

    For the current tax year (2019-20) the van rate is £3,430 - so multiply this by your upper most tax rate to calculate the cash cost you.

    Similarly, the van fuel benefit is also on a flat rate. £655 multiplied by your upper most tax rate.

    This should help:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...t-charges-for-cars-and-vans-from-6-april-2019
     
    Wighty likes this.
  6. OP
    Rob76

    Rob76 Senior Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Your Mercedes:
    S211 E280 CDI Sport
    Cheers for the info!

    However - i am thinking about giving up the van and using my own car IF it is beneficial financially; it is this that i cant figure out :confused:
     
  7. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    196
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    So as above to have the van and fuel paid for you pay your tax rate x 4,085 per year (3420 for van and 655 for fuel). So a 40% tax payer would pay 1600 pounds a year

    Then compare to what you receive for your car allowance. The car allowance is just an extra salary and is effectively taxed as salary so the same 40% tax payer with a car allowance of say 5k would receive 3k (5k - 2k tax) and *i think* it is also subject to NIC so you will likely get 2500ish.

    You should also have the ability to claim back business miles if your employer allows. HMRC allow up to 45ppm tax free BUT your employer probably won't, particularly if they already pay your car allowance (they typically pay 45ppm if you receive no car allowance and then something like 15ppm if you take a car allowance, the (fair) argument being they're only paying your fuel as you have already paid for the car with the allownace!). So say in this example the company offer 15ppm and you do 5k business miles then you receive 750pounds for that (no tax on this).

    So in the above example taking your own car would save 1600 tax, gain 2.5k on car allowance and 750 mileage so you'd be 4850 a year better off so if you can run your car for less than that then you would be better off overall.

    So you need to find 1) your tax rate
    2) the car allowance amount
    3) the business mileage rate paid on employees who have a car allowance
    4) your business mileage

    And then you can redo the above calculation and find out the overall saving for using your own car
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    Rob76 likes this.
  8. Binnedit

    Binnedit Senior Member

    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    121
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Location:
    Smoke on Trent
    Your Mercedes:
    Current: W209 CLK320 A'garde 2003, W211 E280 A'garde 2006 Past: W208 CLK 320, Yr 2000

    Well, if you pay tax at 20%, van & fuel will cost you £68 per month, and double it if you are paying 40% :)
     
  9. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,788
    Likes Received:
    965
    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Your Mercedes:
    W166 GLE350AMG Line 3.0 2017. BMW Z3 2.8 1998.
    Well explained.

    If your employer pays 15ppm, can you claim the 30ppm from HMRC against tax up to 10000 miles per annum and 5ppm thereafter up to £10k, any more? That was the case last time I was an employee.

    The downside will be if your employer insists on restrictions on the vehicle, as often they do, like 4 doors, emissions, fuel type, colour and all too often age. Often to do with corporate image rather than business sense. For £400 a month on a personal loan you can get a decent 'older' luxury Merc that'll still have eons left in it. But you may fall foul of driving a better car than your boss, and their boss and their boss!!! If they want to put those restrictions on you, why not just give you a company car, fully expensed than giving you a few bob to have to spend more to meet their criteria :confused::confused: Hence why office car parks are full of rows and rows of bland boxes on wheels. Whereas where firms actually make things, there isn't the snobbery around badge and newness :D:eek::cool: oh the days of corporate bollox (hence Ive always had a toy to occasionally park in the co car park :p:cool: just to wind up the corporate players) :p
     
    Rob76 likes this.
  10. Yugguy

    Yugguy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    507
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Location:
    Rugby, UK
    Your Mercedes:
    C220CDI W204 Elegance Comand
    You only get the higher pence per mile rate for the first few thousand miles, can't remember how much.
     
  11. OP
    Rob76

    Rob76 Senior Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Your Mercedes:
    S211 E280 CDI Sport
    I think they pay 40ppm up to 10000 / 20ppm thereafter (to be confirmd)
    I am lucky with the place i work to be honest -there are no restrictions. At all :)
    The 3 directors drive a Porcshe, a Discovery 5 & an E350.
    I would use my perfectly good S211 E280 (Which i own) - My preliminary calculations tell me that i could recoup the cost of the car in 2 years if my assumptions are correct with respect to the mileage claim element.
    My contract comes with a company car anyway - but i opted for the van in order to avoid a huge tax bill for 'a tool to do my job' ; and also to avoid the headache of trying to figure all of this out!!!
    Times have changed, and floating about in a van no longer has the appeal that it did & i have a great car sitting on the road doing very little (6k / yr)
    My firm do make things & we have zero corporate bollocks (outside of head office!) - and when i have mine remapped - it will also be one of the quickest!!! :)

    rob
     
  12. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    196
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    That's a good point actually, I don't know as I never got a car allowance so always had the maximum allowed mileage rate... remember running my W124 coupe claiming 10k pa business miles on 40ppm - with petrol about 15ppm. The 2,500/year more than covered absolutely everything. In Spain they aren't so generous - 19c/km (about 25ppm) but they allow me to drive to the UK from Valencia once/year amongst other long trips and the 300D uses about 6c/km so that journey alone pretty much pays for service, tyres and insurance/tax which, touch wood is all it needs some years.

    OP if you can claim 40ppm and you already are running the car anyway (and not on a lease with mileage charges) it is an absolute no brainer - the fuel costs you about 15ppm and the "extra" wear/depreciation/business insurance will be negligible, say 5ppm. and the other fixed costs stay the same. So you're making 20ppm already before you add on the car allowance and the tax saved from not having the van.

    As I said before though, do check the 40ppm is still paid with the car allowance, in companies i used to work for it was 40ppm and no car allowance or car allowance and 15ppm...
     
    Rob76 likes this.
  13. Blobcat

    Blobcat Moderator

    Messages:
    11,610
    Likes Received:
    1,741
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Location:
    Near Grange Moor (not Wakefield...)
    Your Mercedes:
    R171 SLK280 3.0, Land Rover 110 County SW
    HMRC mileage rates are 45 ppm for the first 10,000 miles and 25ppm for every mile after that.

    If say you get 25ppm from your employer you can’t claim 20ppm from the HMRC. You claim the tax relief on the 20ppm. It’s still very much worth doing and is based on your tax rate.

    HMRC may week try and adjust your tax code to take into account the MAR (Mileage Allowance Relief) you are claiming which means you get slightly more in your pocket each month. I always stayed away from this as I’d much rather have a cheque from the HMRC each year than a little bit each month.

    Also if your mileage is likely to vary a lot getting the MAR each month in your tax code could mean a nasty surprise at the end of the year if you have to pay HMRC back...
     
  14. V6Matty

    V6Matty Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,512
    Likes Received:
    575
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Location:
    Newark, Notts
    Your Mercedes:
    S212/10/E350(His) W169/2005/A180 (Hers)
    Check with your company in how they do the fuel charges if you have a fuel card, mine used to say they pay all fuel and then reclaim personal mileage at 11ppm, also had a car allowance of 460per month, I used to make about £4K a year running my E270 with this at around 30k miles a year.
     
    Rob76 likes this.
  15. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,598
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    Rob76 likes this.

Share This Page