Does this car have xenons ??

[pscars]

How can i be sure this car has xenons ?? I cant tell the differance http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2002-52-Mercedes-Benz-ML-270-CDi-Luxury-Pack-Low-Miles_W0QQitemZ300059601038QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9855QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[television]

Yes sir it has.

Malcolm

 

[pscars]

Ive been looking at several today, some with Xenons some without and i cant tell them apart, im nae bonny or bright so make allowences for me please.

 

[television]

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=821&d=1131052859

My old SL had Xenon as seen by the two circular rings in the lamps. Halogen lamps have a more frosted glass and no circular rings in the lamp.

malcolm

 

[type49]

If its got a headlight height adjuster knob on the dash, it has NOT got zenons.

 

[maldon]

Mine has the headlight adjuster switch - as I have said elsewhere on here, my lights are hopeless.

 

[psmart]

This car has Xenons, but it looks like mine, an after market conversion because it doesnt have the power wash. Simple job of changing Halogens for Xenons, you just buy the Xenon headlight units and swap! Hence the headlight adjuster, which is rendered useless because the Xenons auto-adjust the beam as per requirements by law.

Our C220 has Xenons, factory ordered with Power Wash but it has frosted lense covers. The discus eyes give true Xenons away, and this car has discus eyes.

 

[television]

Its adding the auto leveling that is the hard bit.

Malcolm

 

[toscouk]

Cars fitted with Xenons must have headlamp washers by law as dirt on lens causes glare

 

[psmart]

Cars fitted with Xenons must have headlamp washers by law as dirt on lens causes glare

Which law, what year? Car passed MOT without, it also passed the Austrian TUEV without. On the C, you have to press a button..... how many people press a button to wash there headlights? Perhaps its for cars from a certain build year?

 

[television]

#5 24-01-2007, 08:41 PM
television
Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West country by the sea
Posts: 8,722



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------FACT SHEET--------------
December 2006

Aftermarket HID headlamps


In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
__________________


I have moved this info kindly posted by Chas from his posting.

Malcolm

 

[daveenty]

Was looking for that earlier when I browsed at this thread.

But, as psmart says, *how many people press a button to wash there headlights?*

I've got a switch on mine, but never used it

BTW Malcolm.....Garage still not finished (a weather thing now), but went for the insulated door as per your suggestion. A LOT quieter
I may up some pics of the build process later

 

[television]

Was looking for that earlier when I browsed at this thread.

But, as psmart says, *how many people press a button to wash there headlights?*

I've got a switch on mine, but never used it

BTW Malcolm.....Garage still not finished (a weather thing now), but went for the insulated door as per your suggestion. A LOT quieter
I may up some pics of the build process later

I will not press the button on mine as it wll leave wter marks on the front, and cant have that .


It was worth getting the door insulated, it will not sweat on the inside. Pleased it is going well,but as you say it is not building weather.

Malcolm

 

[pscars]

the peoeple who are selling this one says it has NOT got Xenons?? looks the same as the other one to me

 

[television]

the peoeple who are selling this one says it has NOT got Xenons?? looks the same as the other one to me

I would have said that it did have Xenons.

Malcolm

 

[pscars]

Thats what i would have said aswell but the guy who has it says he has been selling Mercs for 26 years and he know that it hasnt ??

 

[television]

Thats what i would have said aswell but the guy who has it says he has been selling Mercs for 26 years and he know that it hasnt ??

What I do on these things is to go to Auto trader and look at all of the multi photos, find the ones that have and have not,to see the differences.

Malcolm

 

[psmart]

I have moved this info kindly posted by Chas from his posting.

Malcolm

Please see Malcolms long post above, Im refering to it but didnt want to cause too much word pollution

For the ML, because your using original type spec'd light units, which have the auto self levelling mechanism internal they are legal, except the power wash. This is a grey area and in a court of law, could be fully shown, for example, by using our C and ML that the power wash is not relevant, it requires user intervention, which a suitable cloth could just as easily cure. The majority of Xenon users are illegal because they fail to wash their headlights.

Its like my A-Frame which I use on my motorhome, technically its legal but not legal, depending upon if your listening to the tin-snip trailer makers or an engineer. Tin-snip trailer makers try to argue that a car on an A-frame is worse than a trailer. If you've taken time to study the workings of a trailer, your probably falling over with laughter. The only grey area is the reversing brake decoupling override which is not possible on a car, but if the A-Frame is suitably adjusted and you have an experienced driver, a car on an A-Frame can be reversed just as easily as a trailer. I have several court documents where the plaintiff (police/government) has lost. I have used these documents on the times I have been stopped by police in Europe and they dont argue. I believe the same of the power wash for Xenons.

If it was categorically proven that they are needed, its only a mornings job to drill a couple of the 'Neon' washer units into the bumper and wire up to a secondary pump. I havent done it because I fail to see the advantage. As mentioned on our C and by others, you have to press a button, very few of us do. If it was compulsory, then the car would automatically clean the headlights on switch on and periodically thereafter.

As for the original question, Uncle Benz made a very good point, later ML's tend to use a halogen bulb in the discus like eye! Confusciuos says, when in doubt, look Switch on the headlights, are they instant on and tinged yellow (halogen) or do they flick on like a flourescent and are pure white (Xenon) with a possible blue tinge? Also, do you have a level adjuster on the dashboard (no = Xenon) (yes - but it doesnt do anything = Xenon conversion, Yes - and it adjusts the light level = Halogen).

 

[psmart]

Its adding the auto leveling that is the hard bit.

Malcolm

Malcolm, you were right and Ive been diddled. I owe you an appology as I was pretty certain about HRA having had mine professionally installed and quoting there 'babble'!
I had reason to pull my headlights apart this weekend (LH Xenon stopped working) so I took time to study the system. Yes the Xenon ML light units have all the motors etc to level out the light pattern, but no - they dont have the electronics. Basically, from the following schematics:-

Front Axle Sensor:

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.644&CT=F&cat=06H&SID=33&SGR=035&SGN=01

Rear Axle Sensor:

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.644&CT=F&cat=06H&SID=35&SGR=080&SGN=01

Control Unit (Item 42 is the HRA control unit):

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.644&CT=F&cat=06H&SID=54&SGR=080&SGN=06

Lights:

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.644&CT=F&cat=06H&SID=82&SGR=210&SGN=06

Headlamp washer (for reference):

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.644&CT=F&cat=06H&SID=86&SGR=015&SGN=01

...you can see how the Xenon system is made up.

So, giving Id been misled, I started studying law, fitting, European Law ECE 48 etc about HID and I came to only 1 definitive conclusion, from new Headlight Range Adjustment and Power Wash must be fitted. What the consquences are on a retro-fit or indeed on a factory fit with HRA being faulty or headlight not clean is 'indeterminate'. Xenons are illegal in the UK, only being allowed because European Law overrides local law. It would seem that all the Retro-fit HID kits to Halogen reflectors is not only illegal but dangerous.

Needless to say, conversion from Halogen to Xenon is not as easy as I was led to believe and the amounts I quoted earlier (EUR500-750) will be much more to retro-fit Xenons.

Summer job on the cards then for me, retrofitting the Front/Rear Sensors, installing the HRA Control Unit and fabricating my own wiring harness!!! Ill add the power wash if I feel upto it!

Can you not trust anybody these days to do a proper job of work?

 

[greenfingers]

I can't work out if the original post has been answered.

There are no headlamp washers visible in the photos, which as Psmart pointed out should mean no xenons.
The headlamp washers on my ML are recessed into the top of the bumper moulding, and very evident.
My headlamp washer button is to the right of the steering column, on the opposite side to the control which you can see on the dashboard pic - IIRC, I don't have that one, so maybe that is the headlamp levelling control.
Therefore this car certainly does not have original xenons.