E Class 2014/5 changes

[jberks]

Hi all,
Some of you may remember me - long time Merc guy and contributor on here but for long complicated reasons, stepped away from 20+ years of Merc ownership 7 years ago and been running a Jag since, so lost touch.
I'm very knowledgable on the W211 but not so much after that so looking for some guidance.

My Dad is looking for an E220 to replace his 2003 one that finally gave up the ghost. He has a budget or around £12k which seems to put us at 2014/15.
I can see that the headlights seemed to change over that period and also the radio buttons went from convex to flat. Aside from these minor cosmetic tweaks, were there any other changes around that time that I should be aware of?
Anything to look out for on a 2014/15 E220CDI?

Thanks.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Welcome back - came across one of your old posts the other day.

If you are looking at buying a diesel a pre-facelift EU5 <2013 would be my choice as opposed to the >2013 EU6 car unless he really needs to run the latter for emissions compliance reasons. My reasoning behind that is based on reliability and financial outcomes; Adblue system and Nox sensor reliability plus headlights are a kings ransom to replace on the facelift even if just a DRL fails as they are built in and inaccessible.
If I was buying >2013 I would buy petrol, my S212 will be my last Mercedes diesel it’s replacement will be petrol

 

[jberks]

Welcome back - came across one of your old posts the other day.

If you are looking at buying a diesel a pre-facelift EU5 <2013 would be my choice as opposed to the >2013 EU6 car unless he really needs to run the latter for emissions compliance reasons. My reasoning behind that is based on reliability and financial outcomes; Adblue system and Nox sensor reliability plus headlights are a kings ransom to replace on the facelift even if just a DRL fails as they are built in and inaccessible.
If I was buying >2013 I would buy petrol, my S212 will be my last Mercedes diesel it’s replacement will be petrol

Thanks - it's a bit catch22. Would certainly consider petrol but they seem almost impossible to with find nothing other than the 300 hybrid showing on auto trader.
Not thrilled with ad-blu etc. I have it on my Discovery sport (jag is too old) but it's still pretty new so too early to tell whether it's going to be a pain yet. DPF wise I think we're ok as it will do a 30 min commute most days.
Hence, I suspect we'll be forced down the E220CDI route.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

If the car is a long term proposition I would stick to EU5 <2013 there are plenty to choose from if you take your time you should find a good example. The Adblue system on the later cars is a liability waiting to happen as are the Nox sensors and both are a very expensive fix. I’m pleased to say that the DPF on most MBs seems very robust and reliable - if the car starts a regeneration I tend to drive the car until it’s completed and don’t use supermarket fuels - just my opinion course

 

[JBell]

Just leave this here

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101057663476?model=CLS&postcode=tq12lr&radius=1500&sort=price-desc&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&aggregatedTrim=CLS250%20CDI&price-to=13000&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

 

[Blobcat]

Welcome back,

I‘d seriously look at if your dad needs a diseasal these days... Bradford has just voted for a clean air zone and Leeds is doing the same I believe.
Problem you’ve found is that Merc weren’t selling many petrols back then as no one wanted them

 

[MBDevotee]

I agree - unless mileage is over 15k a year, petrol preferable - but you are right, few about 2nd hand

 

[grayb]

I know that the technology involved in EU6 for diesels is viewed with suspicion by some, but we will only be buying an EU6 for our next car, to minimise problems with exclusion zones. We have our own reasons for wanting a diesel, as it happens. As someone mentioned above MB DPFs rarely give problems.

 

[jberks]

Just leave this here

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101057663476?model=CLS&postcode=tq12lr&radius=1500&sort=price-desc&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&aggregatedTrim=CLS250%20CDI&price-to=13000&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

cheers, and yes if it were me, it'd probably be a CLS (with a V6 or V8) but the old man is somewhat traditional and likes his 3 box saloons so E class or S class. As an S would likely be a tad expensive to run on a pension, I'm back on an E220CDi ....

 

[jberks]

So next daft question,
There are a few 2017 models with 100k on the clock that may be in budget. This would put him into the latest model pretty much, which I know he'd be thrilled at.

Of course the mileage is pretty high but he lives outside the UK for 6 months of the year so he'll probably only do 4-5k per year and pushing 80, one has to ask how many more miles he really needs to get out of his next car.
Having taken my old E270 to 180k and his last E220 was well over 160k when the bodywork fell off it and the springs broke - on both, drivetrain wise they were still perfect. It's really age that killed both of them, not mileage.

Hence I'm heavily questioning my instinct to avoid 100k + cars if the price is right.

Any 100k+ problems with the newer ones I should be thinking about?

 

[Blobcat]

So next daft question,
There are a few 2017 models with 100k on the clock that may be in budget. This would put him into the latest model pretty much, which I know he'd be thrilled at.

Of course the mileage is pretty high but he lives outside the UK for 6 months of the year so he'll probably only do 4-5k per year and pushing 80, one has to ask how many more miles he really needs to get out of his next car.
Having taken my old E270 to 180k and his last E220 was well over 160k when the bodywork fell off it and the springs broke - on both, drivetrain wise they were still perfect. It's really age that killed both of them, not mileage.

Hence I'm heavily questioning my instinct to avoid 100k + cars if the price is right.

Any 100k+ problems with the newer ones I should be thinking about?

I had one of the W213 E220d’s and absolutely loved it... that was before they’ve all had software updates and lots of adblue and nox issues. An expensive car to run without warranty.... I did 48 k miles in 18 months from new without issues.
I wouldn’t buy one with my money now

 

[Srdl]

As someone mentioned above MB DPFs rarely give problems.

That’s right but all the expensive issues, which now regularly appear on this forum, seem to come from NOx sensors and AdBlue tanks which contain a lot of electrical gubbins which can’t be replaced separately.

 

[grayb]

That’s right but all the expensive issues, which now regularly appear on this forum, seem to come from NOx sensors and AdBlue tanks which contain a lot of electrical gubbins which can’t be replaced separately.

Is the M256 turbo petrol engine now fitted in the AMG43's any much less complex (apart from no Adblue, obviously)? NOx sensors, particulate filters, mild hybrid starter/generator - it's got them all. If we don't like the idea of the tech, then we all keep our older cars until they are banned...

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=178

 

[jberks]

Hmm - thanks - lots to think about.
Seems to be the devil and the deep blue sea.
He gave his 2003 E220 away to his mechanic before he flew out of the country as it was rusty as hell and the final straw, lost a front spring, only weeks after he spent £500 fixing the back end. So he's car-less right now. He's very excited to be getting a new car when he flies back in a few weeks and I promised I'd find him some to look at.
He's run Mercs since he bought a new W123 back in 1979 so I can't see me getting him into something else and in any case, I suspect pretty much every brand has similar issues with the new technology.
I just had a look at autotrader and if I select petrol, in his price range, across the entire country I get a choice of 3, one of which is the same age as the one he just got rid of (hideously overpriced IMO E55) another an imported E250 and the remaining one, well maybe but it's 200 miles away.

Hence, misgivings aside, I think we're stuck.
I do wonder though.
I have a 2019 Discovery Sport so have spent some time on their forum. Eventually I got frustrated as they're all fixated on only using the dealer for servicing and having extended warranties, 2 things that I firmly believe are a waste of money.
I suspect because it's quite a recent model and most of them buy new whereas most of you, and I tend to buy used or at least 'newsed'. In any case, I'd be firmly advised to avoid the diesel if I asked on there too. Lots of DPF and electrical reliability horror stories etc. They're convinced that if you use one only locally, it'll blow up.
Yet I've had mine for nearly a year now, rarely left the city limits and it's been utterly faultless. Even my 210 and 211, both bought 6 months younger than the DS was, had to go back to the dealer within a couple of weeks of collection to fix snagging issues, yet the discovery hasn't been near a dealer since it was delivered. That's a first for me, though my Jag was pretty close with only a bonnet catch needing adjustment.

So, given the thousands of E220CDIs running around, is this one of those cases that those in the know will worry as they have the jaded view of people who see a concentration of problems and actually the issue is a 1 in 1,000 cars type?
Or can we guarantee that even if we go for a higher mileage 2017 model, he's going to face big bills?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Sorry to say this on here but I’d get him to try this...or 520i/528i

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011176205403?model=5%20SERIES&postcode=le91uf&radius=1500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=price-asc&body-type=Saloon&year-from=2010&include-delivery-option=on&make=BMW&fuel-type=Petrol&advertising-location=at_cars&page=3

 

[MJJ]

I am a serial high mileage car buyer as I see the best value to be on those sort of cars. I have come to the conclusion that the majority of consumable parts are designed to last for 100k miles, so buying at that age is likely to require some small-ish spend on suspension bushes, drop-links, coil springs, suspension air-bags (if fitted), air-con condensor etc. in the future.

The non-consumable parts, i.e. those expected to last the life of the car, well then these tend to last 250k plus miles / 10-12 years as an average. You may be unlikely and get an early failure of a DPF, gearbox, turbo etc. , but that is similar on a lower mileage car too.

Buying the 2017 100k mile car would be my preference, but I would have an expectation that £1,000 will need to be spent on it in the first year or two on bits that are simply expected to wear out. If your Dad is only doing 4-5k miles, then the original high-ish mileage starts to trend back toward average. If you can find one that has had recent spend on suspension/aircon consumables, even better.

Martin.

 

[Srdl]

Is the M256 turbo petrol engine now fitted in the AMG43's any much less complex (apart from no Adblue, obviously)? NOx sensors, particulate filters, mild hybrid starter/generator - it's got them all. If we don't like the idea of the tech, then we all keep our older cars until they are banned...

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=178

Mine is the M276 V6 but I take your point. It does have a GPF but these tend not to be a problem like DPFs can be. Here is an interesting technical paper if anyone's interested:

Infineum Insight - Gasoline particulate filters

Regulations curbing vehicle tailpipe emissions are being introduced and/or tightened the world over to help improve air quality. Infineum Insight looks at the automotive industry’s growing use of gasoline particulate filters as one method of compliance.

www.infineuminsight.com

 

[jberks]

SO I've been looking into the Adblue systems.
It seems to be basically in 3 parts. The tank with integral pump, the injector and the NOX sensors.
Looking at the the tank, pump and injector - these seem to suffer from getting clogged over time with Adblue crystals. They build up and eventually it ceases to deliver sufficient fluid to the injector, or the injector gums up and then the ECU notices the NOX isn't being reduced and throws an error.

However, adblue crystals are easily dissolved with water, so it should be a simple task of removing the offending part, swishing some water through it, rinsing it out, drying it and putting it all back together with some fresh adblue. No biggie surely? I'm sure the dealer would simply replace and charge but as with so many of these things, it would seem to be easily repaired.
The NOX sensors can also fail and there doesn't appear to be a simple fix for those, but when all is said and done, they're around £300 a pop which isn't that much worse than the MAF units that were almost guaranteed to fail on my W211. Even then, it only failed the once. So, ok, painful, but not tragic.
So is it really that scary?

 

[JBell]

However, adblue crystals are easily dissolved with water, so it should be a simple task of removing the offending part, swishing some water through it, rinsing it out, drying it and putting it all back together with some fresh adblue. No biggie surely? I'm sure the dealer would simply replace and charge but as with so many of these things, it would seem to be easily repaired.
The NOX sensors can also fail and there doesn't appear to be a simple fix for those, but when all is said and done, they're around £300 a pop which isn't that much worse than the MAF units that were almost guaranteed to fail on my W211. Even then, it only failed the once. So, ok, painful, but not tragic.
So is it really that scary?

I wish you luck with all that!!!!!!!

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

If the car will be laid up for 6 months I wouldn’t go near an ADBLUE car