e-class v gs

[boopolo]

Hi People, i am new here, i need some help asap!

I cant decide between the 270/320 cdi or the new lexus gs300

Has anyone experienced the 2?
I was a little disappointed with the gadgets etc with merc but that is expected but it just looked a bit sparse inside!
oh it would eb teh advantgarde by the way!

how good is the merc? is 270 more than enough?
opinions would be great! I take it ppl will bias towards the merc but could you justify it for me for better understanding?

Thanks

 

[GlynC]

Lexus Vs Merc

Hi There
I owned two GS's before coming to Merc
One GS300 Se then a GS430 Sport
Both gave me lots of trouble and were back at the dealers all the time. One they had for nearly 6 months and couldn't fix it. Now thats the old model though, hopefully the new one will have been tested a lttle better. They were facing a class action in the states as some owners were finding themselves stuck with Lemons! We don't see the trouble here as only a few hundred are sold each year. They took mine back eventually. I also found my local dealer to be bordering on useless when they go wrong as they don't seem to have the experience of selling too many of them!
I now have an E class 320 CDI in full AMG trim and I can honestly state I wish I had saved myself a packet and bought this first. I went to Lexus as I felt the E class was expensive and you needed to hit the options list. But how wrong I was! ( short term gain long term loss)

1. The resale of the GS is appalling.. current E class is holding it's value well
2. I get 40 mpg in the 320 CDI... 23mpg gs430 and 24mpg Gs300 and the way fuel prices are going that is important, unless someones paying yours for you.

Is it a company car or your own... as some of this may now be important if your not writing the cheque!

Hope this helps?? :roll:

 

[pascal]

Em,

Your also compairing petrol with diesel.

I know a few people that bought Lexus's over the years. When they got them at first, the boasted about all the kit that was standard, but when the went to change them they were appalled at their depreciation as Glyn has pointed out to you. Most of them are driving MBs now.

A far as I am concerned, they are just expensive Toyotas with a different badge.

 

[boopolo]

ok i know i am comparing diesel with petrol but if i put the actual runiing of fuel aside!
i am thinking on the same lines as u guys but if more opinion would be even better!
merc costs a bomb with extras! but was thinking depreciation is also better!
i just dont know!!
i would love a 270 or 320 wih amg kit ut that is over 2000 grand! :?

 

[boopolo]

oh sorry i would be paying fuel!! and the prices are gona go even higher so think it might be a diesel then!

dont u guys think the merc is a little sparse inside? like i am paying all this money and i dont really ahve much to play with! i got in and was like press this one press that one, oh no more?

 

[GlynC]

To Lexus or not

Well as I have said before... I suppose your thinking of the electric leather seats sunroof etc.
I have to be quite honest the one extra that is worth the money on the Merc to me was the Command system with integrated phone, expensive ...yes...but something I use all the time. Now the electric seats and the sunroof.... Once you have set the seat you rarely mess with it and I think the Merc seats are part electric on the E. The sunroof is nice.. I have the full panoramic job .. but I could live without it.
If you ring round the Merc dealers (as I did) you will get a good deal, they normally have access to a number of cars which are here in the UK and they will lop some cash off. I negotiated about 5K off one 320 last year which was well spec'd with Command and Leather etc. Lexus won't haggle with this being a new model and there won't be many available to start with .. thats what catches you and two to three years on they drop like a brick!
Even the Lexus dealers wouldn't have my GS430 off me for good money, 1 year old 14K on the clock and fully spec'd they quoted me prices which would have been a loss of £15K ..
Did you say this is your own car or a company purchase.. ?? Makes a big difference.
If it's your own maybe look for a nearly new one and save a decent wedge?
I have an extremely good contact for Merc's (main dealer)
What part of the country are you in?

 

[boopolo]

Hey glynC

It will be my own vehicle and i am from cambridgeshire suffolk area!!
You say you ahve contacts, contacts for me to get a good deal? IF so, that would be great!
Yeah i now about the depreciation which is putting me off.
I really like the merc but i tell u why the lexus too.
lots of kit, especiall the satnav with reverse camera,
the little touches such as boot closure, button start etc
the sporty styling

but i do like the merc too....arrgghhh!

could you tell me the difference between the dvd sat nav and the other one, apparently thwy use same software? just that the dvd one has a proper screen whereas the cheapre one is some osrt of dot matrix thing??

 

[GlynC]

Merc vs Lexus

Hi
The one I have is the full version with DVD sat Nav and separate DVD and TV tuner in the dash. The command system is much more comprehensive than the cheaper APS50 system. Obviously the main difference is the screen but the command system also integrates with the phone kit when fitted. So the phone displays on either the screen or the dash section, which also displays many of the command functions and adaptive cruise etc. I haven't really played with the standard system too much so don't have much experience with it. The DVD slot in the dash also plays MP3 CDs which is useful. This of course is in additon to the multichanger.
Take it from me it is a cracking piece of kit. But the 320 is the model to go for, the engine is streets ahead of the 270 in both power and delivery. I was offered vert good deals on 320's and there are some EU3 versions about which attract higher tax rates for company drivers which wouldn't affect you but mean you can do a deal on them. The EU4 cars are slighty slower and more thirsty.
I am seriously getting between 41 and 45 I tend to do varied motoring with good streches on the motorways. The acceleration on the 320 would wipe the smile off any GS300 owners face, and isn't too far off the 430 I had. All at 40 to the gallon.
If you email me I'll give you a contact name
Also tried to attached photo of my motor. This is what class sporty looks like. The Lexus can only try. The backend of the GS looks Awful, more like a Toyota hatch! Sorry my oppinion!

 

[parthiban]

We've been having the same dilemma recently, my dad's looking to replace his S-class, and its a weigh up between the new GS and the E-class. Btw, Glyn, were you a member of LOC? Anyway, I have a Lexus IS200, which has been fantastic, and more so the dealers have been amazing. Any small problem, and they're happy to fix it straight away, no complaints. I think Glyn has been a bit unlucky, because the Lexus experience is probably one of the best in the motoring world.

So because of this, I dragged my dad down to Lexus to test drive the new GS. I was very impressed to say the least. I knew the toys in the car would be lovely, but what really took me by surprise is the way it drives. I thought it would handle like a barge, and roll around all over the place. But it is really well sorted. Rides very well, but holds the corners well too. Obviously, if you throw it around a track, I don't think it'll do too well, because it is such a large car, but on the public roads, its everything you'll ever need. Havent yet driven an E-class, but have done a CLS, which was not as good (although absolutely gorgeous) so I assume the E will be the same if not worse.

Where build quality is concerned, the lexus wins hands down. The materials are much better, and everything is solidly put together. I was very disappointed with the build in the E-class, especially the switches which reminded me of a Renault that we had a few years ago.

In terms of value, I would say that the E-class will probably have better residuals, but that depends on the spec you choose. For us, its between an E350 or a GS300 SE-L. The lexus costs £40000 all in, whereas the Merc pushes £50000 with the same spec. Therefore, over a 3 year period you are going to lose far more with the merc than the lexus because the extras will not count as much as the car gets older.

This is only my opinion, and I don't mean it to offend anyone. The best way for you to decide, is to drive both, so you can figure out which car you prefer. My dad is still undecided, simply because of the kudos that lies with the Mercedes badge. From owning the IS200 for just over 2 years now, we know how good Lexus aftersales care really is. As we currently own a Mercedes, BMW and an Audi, I say that with experience.

I hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions

 

[boopolo]

the dealer told me the opposite to what u said about the eu3 and 4!
is the cheaper verison of the satnav a dot matrix screen?
my email is boopolo@gmail.com
can u send me a pic of ur motor? and contact details for your contact?
is the 320 a completely differnt engine? apart from it being a bigger engine i mean, is it more advanced? why is it a lot better?
cheers

 

[boopolo]

Where build quality is concerned, the lexus wins hands down. The materials are much better, and everything is solidly put together. I was very disappointed with the build in the E-class, especially the switches which reminded me of a Renault that we had a few years ago.

In terms of value, I would say that the E-class will probably have better residuals, but that depends on the spec you choose. For us, its between an E350 or a GS300 SE-L. The lexus costs £40000 all in, whereas the Merc pushes £50000 with the same spec. Therefore, over a 3 year period you are going to lose far more with the merc than the lexus because the extras will not count as much as the car gets older.

This is only my opinion, and I don't mean it to offend anyone. The best way for you to decide, is to drive both, so you can figure out which car you prefer. My dad is still undecided, simply because of the kudos that lies with the Mercedes badge. From owning the IS200 for just over 2 years now, we know how good Lexus aftersales care really is. As we currently own a Mercedes, BMW and an Audi, I say that with experience.

I hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions

that is what i am thinking too, the interior surrised me a lot in that it didnt seem that much better put together, infact when i sat in it my 1st word was, im a little disappointed although i have owned a merc before and i do like them amazing engine that i got over 375,000 miles on, i owned it from new , it was 190e.
i just cant decide, the gadgets is so tempting for lexus but i still like mercs and their looks and style on the road!
i am thinking of owning the new car for yrs and yrs just like the old one i had so depreciation would not matter really would it??

 

[parthiban]

I think that a Lexus engine will go just as far as a Mercedes engine, possibly further, and it really is so quiet. When you stop at a traffic light, you cannot hear anything at all, it truly is very well refined.

Have you seen the GS in the flesh? If not, I recommend doing so because it has far more road presence than the E-class, which in my opinion is a little too common, and looks very plain. Only really looks good with the AMG bodystyling which costs quite a lot. In total honesty, we wouldn't even be considering the E-class if the CLS had 3 seats in the rear

If you're not worried about depreciation, then the Lexus wins in every aspect except for image. While I feel that the GS is a better looking car, Lexus still lacks the image that Mercedes and BMW still hold. So at the end of the day, you're going to be driving around in it, and while you may get used to not having as many toys, or the car going to the garage a bit more often, you don't want to always be thinking that you would rather have bought a Mercedes. Having said that, if you do buy a Lexus, its unlikely you'll ever go back to Mercedes until they sort out their reliability and customer care issues. There have also been too many instances reported of total brake failure which to me is a little unsettling.

I'm also confused by the satnav issue. It seems that the DVD COMAND system does not have traffic avoidance whereas the CD-based APS50 system does. How is that possible?

 

[boopolo]

Yeah i sat in both cars last weekend at showroom and have booked in for test drive in the netx couple of weeks, i have had experience with the old gs and that is already super smooth and quiet.
been in is200 recently and thought that was very quiet too, how does the is200 compare to the new gs? as in engine refinement, quietness wise?
thats the other thing, if it is the lexus it would be the se-l i agree e class looks so much better with amg styyling but it cvosts a bomb!! lexus with the styling i can afford as it comes to about 40k but merc will have to plus extras then will be too expensive ion the end to add the amg, this is doing my head in! i have driven the eclass before (customers cars plus the old gs and i like them both, have differnt characeristics, its like the 2 cars have good points but they are opposite of each other if u know waht i mean)

and i was told that neither had traffic avoidance! the only difference was that dvd was obviously a dvd based programme but exactly the same as the cd one but can also play dvd's
can the lexus have a tv tuner? in the merc, can u watch tv while car is moving or is it blocked and will have someoen to unlock it?
the salesman was useless, didnt seem to know much, he was the only one there at showroom as it was weekend,

 

[parthiban]

The GS is much quieter than the IS200, different types of car. In the IS, you hear much more of the engine, whereas the GS is silent, emphasis is placed more on refinement.

I have been told that the CD APS50 has DRG (dynamic route guidance), but would be nice if someone could confirm. The Lexus has the traffic avoidance so there's another plus point, and I also think the touchscreen is much easier to use than COMAND.

I also like the fact that COMAND plays DVDs, and you can add a TV tuner as well as a screen in the rear too, but the cost really is quite high! There is no factory fit TV tuner available for the Lexus, but it can be done. I prefer the fact that the Lexus has the reverse camera (which make sure you try out when you test drive, it really is so useful). Also, the Mark Levinson sound system really is fantastic!

If it were up to me, I think I'd have the Lexus, because the car is very good, and add to that keyless go, adaptive cruise, ventilated seats, great audio system, satnav with traffic, reverse camera, the list is endless. These are all things that you could probably live without, but once you try them, you get hooked!

Whereabouts are you based? Which dealers are you going to?

 

[boopolo]

so you saying u can only get tv on the rear screens? u cant get it to play onthe screen on the dash?

im from cambridgeshire suffolk area!

but ur biased, u own a lexus already! :razz:

can u get the lexus to play dvds? i know u cant as standrad but can u maybe get a disc changer to add to it or soemthing? i looked at the price list but there were no options, all were already on the car!

 

[boopolo]

oh, does anyone know the depreciation rate and how much it would lose etc in 3 yrs or something like that for both cars? im basically trying to find out after how many yrs would it start to be around the same price roughly

the airmatic suspension, have u had experience of that? does it make ride that much better or not that noticeable on normal roads?

 

[parthiban]

Well I have satnav in my IS200, it has no TV but you can get aftermarket units that connect up to the screen and allow you to add TV, DVD, PS2, basically whatever you want to, so it should be possible to do so with the GS too. None of this is available from Lexus sadly, but the unit costs around £400, and then any extra for whatever bits you add.

I do own a Lexus, but the car we're replacing is an S-class! I understand why you'd think I'd be biased, but honestly I'm not, as I said, my favourite of the lot is the CLS, if only it had that rear centre seat!

The CLS500 we test drove had airmatic suspension, which seemed to be fine, and was probably more comfortable than the GS300 (but rolled more), but the adaptive suspension on the GS430 was more controlled and more comfortable. Haven't tried a Merc with normal suspension though, so can't really comment.

Can't say too much about residuals, because the GS is new, and E-class hasn't been around that long. Its not easy to say as the E-class is very common with a lot of fleet cars, so it depends on how desirable the GS becomes, so only time will tell.

This is turning out to be quite useful, making me realise some of the good points to the Merc too! Adding to the level of confusion tho.....

 

[boopolo]

Made you realise the good points of the Merc??
I don;t think you actually mentioned that many good points about the Merc!
Which one? be good to list them!

 

[pascal]

According to 'Whatcar' in Aug 2000 (both old models then; around a few years)

Lexus GS300se is worth 40% of its original purchase price after 3 years

E320cdi Avantgarde is worth 55% of its original purchase price after 3 years

So that may give you some idea.


Pascal

 

[parthiban]

Made you realise the good points of the Merc??
I don;t think you actually mentioned that many good points about the Merc!
Which one? be good to list them!

Sorry mate, I have been giving a slightly one sided opinion, but I meant you were pointing out the good points of the Merc!

Having not driven the Merc, can't say anything about that but as it stands this is what I think:

For:

With AMG styling, very classy yet sporty
4 zone climate control
COMAND can play DVD with option of TV and rear screen
Remote boot operation

Against:

Quite common
No bluetooth
No traffic avoidance
Can get quite expensive
Questionable build quality

What do you agree or disagree with? Is there anything else you would add?