E220 problems after fitting new battery

[alan c]

hi son owns an e class, 220 diesel, he works away, wednesday night, i need to move his car, wont start, clock runs backwards, error messages come up, so? jump start it, with instructions from merc service, dont have any indicators, reversing lights, car struggles to lock, when it does, cant open it, cannot gain access to boot(trunk) but, most is eventually sorted when car gets a bit of electricity back, left with no reverse lights, and an error message on dash, prob a few other things as well

car is under warranty, but not on electrics, (easy cop out) dealer supplies battery, which is fitted, then its back to square one,
no indicators
no hazard lights
no reverse light
struggles to lock
struggles even more to unlock
cant get access to boot
wont alarm
SO? fuse? something fried? car is just 4 year old, and, quite frankly, i am dissapointed
if something as simple as changing a battery leads to this--what is the car going to be like in a couple of years? NOT what i expect from a high prestige car!
does any of you guys have any ideas?
son is home from holiday on saturday, it would be nice to have a result befoe he goes back to france on monday, we live in the uk,
For any help at all, i thank you loads!

sorry about the long ramble, but, its been a horrid 2 days with this car

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Sounds like a relay problem, the combination of items affected should indicate which one. Ask the dealer over the phone which relay or fuse controls the affected items and you will be nearer an answer. The other option is to take the car to the dealer and ask for the fault code to be read, this will cost 1 hours labour which would pay for the relay unit if you can identify the problem.

I'm sure there will be more advice in the pipeline so wait for one or two more replies before jumping to conclusions. It certainly sounds as if the battery is loosing its charge because of the fault, and when a batteries running undercurrent a multitude of anciliary items start to close down.

you could also try a full battery reset by diconnecting the battery for at least 30mins which will completerly reset the ECU

Hope this helps!

 

[tom7035]

Just a point, but when jump-starting from a remote 12V power source, the proper procedure is;


Make sure all electrics are switched off. Connect the positive terminals of the batteries. Connect one end of negative to donor battery/power source and the other end to a suitable earth on the car (NOT the battery) - if in the boot, one of the boot/tailgate lock mounting bolts is ideal. Start the engine and run at idle speed, then SWITCH ON all your electrics - lights, r/w demister, heater blower etc., BEFORE disconnecting the batteries in the reverse order of connection. Finally turn off electrics.

Cheers and good luck with your current (pun not intended!) problem, Tom.

 

[robbo]

SAM module?

I dont know if its the same on the W210, but on the W203 the rear SAM module is notorious for blowing when a battery is changed, causing the same kind of symptoms you described. It's not cheap to fix either unfortunately.

 

[alan c]

its fixed thanks for the replys given

well its fixed, lee(son) got a number of a local set-up, that just does mercs, plug into diagnostic, strip the codes out, re-set all codes £40 to plug in, £20 to re-boot codes everthing works, just got to teach the gearbox and engine his driving style(yes, you have to re-teach the thing??)
lessons learned?
DONT let any tom, dick or harry, who says he knows mercs, to remove the battery
DONT leave an e class(may be others, i am only concerned with this one) to stand, without starting them, at least once a week, lee was told the merc is a living breathing organism, needing juice to keep it going when stood, its always awake, and never sleeps nicely put, eh?

SO if you are leaving the car for a length of time,
DONT put the alarm on--sucks battery dry
DONT lock it, if it drains battery, you cant get in!, unless you have the skeleton key (obviously, on these 2, only if it is under lock and key)
DONT leave it at the airport, without ensuring its turned over periodically
i asked merc main agents about this, and asked if i would have to call out relay, if it was left standing--their answer? YES!

they are battery suckers, be careful---our cheap trade battery at £40has ended up costing £125 it could have been much, much worse
there are things to do when changing a battery, that you would not believe
hope this helps in some way to you merc owners, its been an education to us,
please, don't take all this as gospel, its how it happened to us, it could happen to you

 

[television]

Battery reverse polarity

The clock going backwards shows that the battery was reversed polarity.
Batteries come in identical sizes with the choice of polarity at the terminals, care must be taken before fitting, and I would always check before fitting just in case the markings were not correct.

MOTORS DC motors as fitted to our cars will run backwards in this instance. Lets take the starter motor, if the relay managed to close, the starter would have cranked the engine backwards doing servere damage to the clutch. Any motors (servo) would have run to the end stops backwards where they should be normally closed. The vacuam pump would have gone backwards and could have strained the diaphrams in the central locking and engine management components.

CONTROL MODULES These are hard to measure for damage, If we take the idle relay, it contains several OP amps and comparators that drive the servo motors and valves for engine starting, etc. The signal coming out of these devices is what we call a waveform,this waveform must be clean with no noise. When these devices have had reversed + and - applied they can still work but normally go noisy, Maybe some of you have had a sound system that has had a constant crackle or rushing sound, well that's what I mean by noise. Thank goodness it was a deisel, and no ignition circuits.

CENTRAL LOCKINGthe central locking or alarm uses the same current armed or not, The alarm is only a flip flop device and draws the same current in either mode.

GEARBOX There is no truth in the myth that you have to teach the gearbox, our handbooks all state that the gearbox learns from our driving manner, that means there and then and not long term,since the gearbox ECU has no memory, the box ECU gets its info from the engine ECU.

One can never have all of the answers in a case like this, it is a matter of drive and see what happens. Just in case anyone is scared to death on these postings, there is a perfectly safe way to change a battery on an MB.I do it all of the time when working near air bags. I will do a posting shortly.

Malcolm

 

[big x]

I don't agree with any of this,fitting a new 100ah battery is very straight forward for any one with half a brain.Fitting a smaller budget battery is asking for problems on modern cars.If you have a multi-meter you can measure the battery drain and work out how long it will last without starting.
I left a W210 for 3 weeks in winter at the airport without problems.

adam

well its fixed, lee(son) got a number of a local set-up, that just does mercs, plug into diagnostic, strip the codes out, re-set all codes £40 to plug in, £20 to re-boot codes everthing works, just got to teach the gearbox and engine his driving style(yes, you have to re-teach the thing??)
lessons learned?
DONT let any tom, dick or harry, who says he knows mercs, to remove the battery
DONT leave an e class(may be others, i am only concerned with this one) to stand, without starting them, at least once a week, lee was told the merc is a living breathing organism, needing juice to keep it going when stood, its always awake, and never sleeps nicely put, eh?

SO if you are leaving the car for a length of time,
DONT put the alarm on--sucks battery dry
DONT lock it, if it drains battery, you cant get in!, unless you have the skeleton key (obviously, on these 2, only if it is under lock and key)
DONT leave it at the airport, without ensuring its turned over periodically
i asked merc main agents about this, and asked if i would have to call out relay, if it was left standing--their answer? YES!

they are battery suckers, be careful---our cheap trade battery at £40has ended up costing £125 it could have been much, much worse
there are things to do when changing a battery, that you would not believe
hope this helps in some way to you merc owners, its been an education to us,
please, don't take all this as gospel, its how it happened to us, it could happen to you

 

[alan c]

the battery was the same capacity as the merc battery removed, the clock ran backwards beofe any battery was dis-connected, and i dont know about your car at the airport, i am only on about an e class 220
did the guy who said he knew mercs and changed the battery, and tried to re-set the codes only have half a brain--cant comment
my employer also has an eclass--a brand new one, this had to be operated on by merc service, under warranty, because he left his lights on for 3 hours in the car park, it lost codes, and went into limp mode, a friend of mine, just on saturday had an e220 merc in his showroom that had not been started for a fortnight, this threw a wobbly, and showed up 3 faults on the dash display, these vanished after running the car for 20 minutes

whether you agree, or not, is irrelavant---it happened, and will happen to e220 owners again, just be aware that your car is leky thirsty, and you cant go wrong
i invite comment, but have no wish for an argument the facts i have listed 100% take heed, nothing is falsified, or dramatised, its how it happened
the lads car is now locked away in a garage for 7 weeks it wont be locked, and will be started twice a week and yes, the garage is most secure

 

[tamrsoft]

Start the car and run it by all means, but make sure you give it a good run and get the engine upto full temperature for at least 15 mins or more. Not doing so will leave condensate in the engine which is acidic and damaging and will lead to an early end of life for both the engine and exhaust.
If the clock has always run backwards (with the old and new batteries) then you clearly have a serious wiring problem somewhere in the car which probably accounts for many of the problems you experienced, I fear that despite all your precautionary methods for the future, this car always give problems unless someone sorts them out now. I have left my E220 CDi in an airport car park for 2.5 weeks (with alarm enabled), when I returned the car fired into life at the first turn of the starter and ran like it always has. This is what you should expect from an E220 (or any E-Class) if it is in good working order.

 

[television]

Unfortunately all of the views and postings in the world cant change physics, if the clock ran backwards, it can only do so by having a reversed voltage applied to it.

Malcolm

 

[tamrsoft]

One way to reverse the voltage is to have an inadvertant reversal within the wiring connections caused by manufacturing or assembly errors (unless the clock internals are faulty), if it is a manufacturing quality problem, how far has this extended into other areas of the assembly ?? One thing is certain, something fundamental is wrong with the electrics in this particular car and not in the model, I would have it check out by an auto electrics specialist and not try to live with the problem else it will catch you out again, be certain of that.

 

[television]

One way to reverse the voltage is to have an inadvertant reversal within the wiring connections caused by manufacturing or assembly errors (unless the clock internals are faulty), if it is a manufacturing quality problem, how far has this extended into other areas of the assembly ?? One thing is certain, something fundamental is wrong with the electrics in this particular car and not in the model, I would have it check out by an auto electrics specialist and not try to live with the problem else it will catch you out again, be certain of that.

Sorry to disagree on this but what you say cannot happen, since one pole (negative) is the chassis.The clock was the give away point that showed what the problem was,and no more than that,those of us that fix these things look for a clue, and the clock was the definate answer.take a look at the string of faults that happened at the same time.no such wiring fault can exist to create all of those problems

The car was perfectly good when it left the factory, the record cards prove that. The car has driven perfectly for a good number of years and many thousands of miles, and the service records and MOT's prove that. This car only gave trouble when the battery came to the end of its useful life and an attempt was made to charge or fit the battery the wrong way round.
the car is now running again, so no fault with car.
This is a case where a human blunder was made and the car is blaimed and I think the owner should except that.

Malcolm

 

[tamrsoft]

As I said earlier, the faults (if they still exist) are with the car and not the model as has been suggested by the custodian of this one, a reverse battery installation is a possibility but only an assumption from the information given (ie the clock ran backwards before the battery disconnect). I cannot comment on the permanent damage to the electronics such an installation would cause since I have never been unfortunate enough to have done it. I bow to the knowledge of the experts who have encountered this. Most domestic electronic items are designed to cope with accidental reverse battery installation through protective diodes, I would imagine car electronics are a different kettle of fish but I stand to be educated on this. I am afraid I still disagree with alan c's view on the weakness of these cars unable to withstand not being used for 2-3 weeks without special procedures being implemented, 2-3 months, maybe, 2-3 weeks, no.

 

[alan c]

a update

well the car, since the re-code, has been behaving itself beutifully, i had the battery that was taken off checked, and its down a cell, could this have reversed polarity when it got so low?? i have known it in the past, but, when the car was jump started, it was fine and, i must admit, i was in doubt as whether to have it changed--glad i did, but i wish it had gone to merc, instead of falling for the --i know someone syndrome
now then, the clock
it ran backwards, at quite a rate of knots---quite alarmed me!! this was when the ignition was on, drawing max power from a dead battery, on removal of the key, it went to normal way, but again, at a rate of knots!
car, on the computer (bring back morris 1000s) shows no faults at all the car is now A1

fluke? sorry, after looking on the net for hours on this, its no fluke,

well the car is going to be locked up for the next 7 weeks, then he is home, for good all i can do is go round, and run it for 10 minutes, twice a week, i am not insured to drive it round

oh, yes, i asked at the time if he could have a bigger amphour battery fitted--not enough space

 

[tom7035]

My imagination may be running away with me but this is one of those situations which has to have a relatively simple explanation. Do I not recall correctly from schooldays that a totally dead (and I mean TOTALLY dead) battery connected up to a charger the wrong way round would in fact charge with reversed polarity? If then fitted to the car the symptoms described here would occur, and the alternator would then in fact DISCHARGE the battery once more until it reached the totally discharged point once again before resuming correct polarity. I seem to recall a charge can be forced OUT of a battery as well as IN.
By any chance was an attempt made prior to all this to charge the battery? (An honest answer now! )

During the late fifties when UK cars changed from positive to negative earth we started getting in all sorts of reversed polarity problems not dis-similar to this though not quite causing so much trouble as nowadays, obviously.

 

[television]

Tom, your memory is good, and you are right,I did it at school too. It is possible to charge the battery the wrong way round when completely dead, more so in this case with one dead cell, the car could not start as the relays would not work in this case, as I said earlier, had the stater motor been allowed to crank the engine it would have done so backwards. with our cars full of semiconductors this situation could have been instant death. the car did not and could not cause it as the battery was dead, therefor the car was not running.

Re good old days, yes it was so simple, If you wanted to turn the battery around just start the car,hold the cut out closed for 10 sec and that reversed the residual magnetism in the field coils.
thank you Tom.

Malcolm

 

[Frank Patten]

The clock in a modern merc is quartz. I am a watchmaker and customers come in frequently with ordinary quartz clocks that have stopped. I always check which way round they have fitted the battery. If it is in back to front the clock stops. It doesn't run backwards. A quartz clock does not have an ordinary motor that is reversible. It is a stepping motor and the shape of the armature should make it run only one way. I think that the voltage in this car was so low that the motor was trying to advance but was unable to do so and instead 'twitched' and slipped backwards.

 

[mercmonkey]

my wall clock in my office does the same thing (tries to tick and fails slipping backwards). Change the battery and set the time... problem solved

 

[alan c]

E Class Prob;ems

no charge was made at all, only time the car saw a bit of extra life was when i jump started it at the battery, not the contacts under the bonnet( this after struggling to lift the damned bonnet, and finding no battery!!) reason is simple, the thing was in the garage, VERY nose in, and in park, so, even though i was tempted to drag it out by the scruff of its neck, i persevered, and jumped it, +to+ - to ground its being a good little boy now, and can stay in the family---it is on probation

i also take note of the kind chap who says not to just turn it over, tonight, i am going to run it up to operating temp hope it doesnt take long!!! remember, its locked up for 6-8 weeks, from last sunday! WHAT A WASTE OF A CAR!

 

[Frank Patten]

Might I suggest that instead of tedious starting and running twice a week (starting takes a huge bite out of the battery, requiring quite some time running to put it back) that you simply buy a trickle charger and leave the battery charging until it is needed again? They start at about 15 quid.