E270cdi gearbox damage - radiator coolant contamination.

[RA19]

I know this issue of the problems from the Valeo radiator leaking coolant into the gearbox has come up often. I've got a 52 plate E270cdi which has recently developed the symptoms, confirmed by dealer inspection. Remedy is new rad, new torque convertor, gearbox flush etc. Quoted over £2000 for repair.

I contacted Mercedes customer service & their reply I've copied below. Have I any chance of getting some compensation for what seems to be a fairly well-known defect?? thx.

The transmission and transmission oil cooler fitted to your Mercedes-Benz are made using the latest in manufacturing processes, materials and technology available. Mercedes-Benz carries out stringent safety tests during after production and also carry out extensive research in the field of aftersales.

We can assure you that the failure you have described is a rare occurrence and is not a common issue within the passenger car range.

In this instance, there can be no clear explanation as to why the transmission oil cooler on your vehicle developed a leak. However, it seems that as a result, the transmission oil has become contaminated and subsequently damaged the transmission and the torque converter.

We would normally rule out the possibility of a manufacturing defect, as one would expect any weakness in the transmission oil cooler that was caused during the manufacture of the component to have become apparent sooner than the age and mileage at which this unfortunate incident has occurred.

You will understand that a manufacturer cannot completely guarantee that a component will never fail; neither can we completely eliminate the chances of consequential damage should any component fail.

However we can reassure you that the new components fitted to your vehicle and the method of replacement used meets Mercedes-Benz’s stringent standards.

Unfortunately, we are not in a position to analyse the decayed components and provide an accurate statement defining the exact reason why the initial leak became apparent, nor a detailed explanation of the subsequent chain of events leading to the transmission failure.

It is however most often the case that failures occur or develop as a result of outside influence. The decomposition of metal by oxidization usually begins following impact damage Scratches, crash repairs, car wash abrasions, industrial fallout, chemical attack and salt air environments. Also materials such as rubber and plastic can also perish due to similar factors.

 

[television]

We can assure you that the failure you have described is a rare occurrence and is not a common issue within the passenger car range.

Rare occurrence what ever next, There are loads of them out there, and it was a manufacturing fault as can be seen all over the world, every forum in the world has had loads of these post., they have helped out on most others that have gone.

I would get onto them again and tell them it is not a rare occurrence

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I would say from reading this website and also from spekaing with my own MB main dealer who I use for all servicing this is an extremely well known issue. It is well documented and my own dealer is well aware of it as I asked about this some time back with a view to changing the radiator at my own expense to avoid such a problem. He assured me it was a very big problem but it did not affect my car as they had already checked for it!

I had similar issues on other problems and now that you have got MB comment in writing I would say you have enough to go after them. They are more than well aware of the defect and of the consequential damage. While I would agree there is no reason why they would have had to replace the radiator they certainly could warn people about this problem to enable thme to avoid destroying the transmission.

To this day I will never understand why MB did not simply make it an exchange item at customer expense to avoid the bigger bills. The problem is Valeo radiators.

You dont say whether you have the car from new or if it has an MB history or if you bought more recently from an MB or non MB dealer. I think we could say with certainty from this site that any competent (?) MB dealer would have been aware of this issue and should have addressed it.

 

[jberks]

copy this thread and point out that you already know for a well documented fact that the "Valeo Radiator issue" is a very common fault caused by a manufacturing or design error. It even has it's own name in the owners community! HOw else would we all know that it was made by Valeo? I'd be very tempted to end the letter with a request that, at the very least, their next reply didn't contain a blatant lie as, as well as being rather insulting, it shows MB customer services in a very poor light!

In my view, MB are negligent in not informing owners of this issue and as above, allowing at the very least, owners to make the choice as to whether to pay for a replacement. I too have pro-actively had both mine and my father's checked for this issue. Hardly something I (or Olaf) would bother with, for such a 'rare' occurence.

A friend had a similar argument with Audi over DSG gearbox failures. They too claimed it was very rare and not a design fault. So, he trawled the internet and presented them with a dossier of other incidents. With their argument shot down in flames, they paid 80%.
The internet is a wonderful thing

 

[railbrid]

Valeo Radiators

We have a CLK 320, 03 registration. How will we know if we have a Valeo radiator? The only name we can see is 'TEMIC'.

Thanks for any info.

 

[Stephen720]

Gear Box Problems

I had exactly the same problem in May 2007 - Search Stephen720 - for the full debate.

 

[television]

We have a CLK 320, 03 registration. How will we know if we have a Valeo radiator? The only name we can see is 'TEMIC'.

Thanks for any info.

As far as I know Temic are an electronics firm making controlled fans for MB If the rad is Temic,,then you will not have a problem,, the other maker is Behr

 

[Rory]

We have a CLK 320, 03 registration. How will we know if we have a Valeo radiator? The only name we can see is 'TEMIC'.

Thanks for any info.

It's not easy to tell, but there are some details here:
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=34924

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I had a friend years back who had a new Opel Omega around 1987. It developed a horrific erratic failure to start. It proved to be extremely unreliable. It was forever going back to the dealer. Eventualy it went legal and every argument was rebutted on the basis that it was so rare and an unknown problem. however, I tracked a few other similar issues and we eventually found a long lsit of similar and very well known issues. Argument demolished. Car eventually changed for a new one.

The radiator issue is similar, the issue is so well known I think if you trawl just this site you will get a lot of owners who had this problem. It is far from rare and is very well known on this site. I take the view after a certain period I would like my dealer to advise me if certain parts are likley to fail with expensive results. Replacement at my expense is fine. If I were a manufacturer I would be passing some of the replacement cost back to the radiator manufacturer but thats one for MB. The bottom line is probably you should have been warned of the issue whereby expending the cost of a radiator change you would not have incurred the cost of repairing the transmission.

 

[andrewe]

Gearbox damage

hi guys i have been reading your stories as i have been afflicted by the same problem here in Australia. My CLK 320 2002 model came down with all the symptoms and the dealer made out like they had no idea what was going on. another repairer has acknowledged that they have these problems regularly.
i am prepraing to take on MB australia. i feel strongly about it.
$8000 is my repair quote.
I imagine that if someone took them to court it would be a pretty open and shut case but you never know.
It was mentioned earlier that someone used alot of information off the internet and they paid 80% of the costs.
Perhaps if we put together a list of names, email adresses and cars affected by the same problem the evidence would be overwhelming and MB would have to accept that it was a common problem.
This list could be used by any owners contemplating action in future. I cant imagin MB want anything to go to court...a loss would mean they would have to pay up for everyone then.
If anyone has any ideas on how to go about this please email me andrewevans303@hotmail.com

regards andrew

 

[statesh]

hello,

I have E270CDI classic 2003 done 51k. It had a gearbox failure last week and now i am told that the cause of it is the Valeo radiator leaking coolant into the gearbox. I am told that it is common design problem but can anyone advise me if MB compensated for fixing such a problem?

Thanks
Said

 

[television]

Hello and welcome top the forum,,MB were helping out with this problem,,but not any longer.

The fault often just requires a new torque converter and rad

You can write to them and ask by all means, one never knows.

Were your troubles the humming sound when accelerating lightly in top

 

[statesh]

thanks Malcolm. well, according to MB service the car needs gearbox change, torque convertor change and a new rad.

the problem started by the gearbox getting stuck at lower gear 2nd or 3rd.

i just called MB UK and they said it is not a design fault. if it is indeed a known problem it is only fair that they contribute to fixing it..

 

[television]

The car being stuck in 1 or 2 is the conductor plate and nothing to do with glycol and only 1 car in 50 need a new box for the glycol fault.

Who diagnosed the fault

 

[statesh]

the gear was getting stuck into 2nd only occasionally. the fault initially was diagnosed by MB dealer in Swindon but they didnt do a test on the oil. they are the one who told me i need a gearbox change.

I took the car to a gearbox specialist to repair it and they did a test on the oil and removed the gearbox to find the fault in the radiator.

do you think there is a problem with the diagnosis?

 

[television]

the gear was getting stuck into 2nd only occasionally. the fault initially was diagnosed by MB dealer in Swindon but they didnt do a test on the oil. they are the one who told me i need a gearbox change.

I took the car to a gearbox specialist to repair it and they did a test on the oil and removed the gearbox to find the fault in the radiator.

do you think there is a problem with the diagnosis?

Yes I really do think something is wrong with the diagnosis.

It could pay you to drop down to Southampton to MBS and get a proper honest check,, non of what you have posted adds up at all.

 

[statesh]

Hi Malcolm, i have checked again with the service and the oil test came out contaminated with glycol so there is no doubt that the radiator was leaking, right?

MBS is now telling me to wait before i fix it. They want to check with their HQ if the can reimburse some of the cost so keeping my finger crossed.

 

[television]

Yes it may be leaking,,that would not cause the lock up into 1 or 2 that is the speed sensor plate,, maybe the glycol leak has been caught before any damage done,, the MBS guys are good

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Hi

I have a E320CDI '04 in my workshop with the exact same problem. I do about 2 of these a month at the moment so for MB to say its rare is a total lie. Everyone in the MB world knows this is a issue and I know that Benz used to cough up for loads of these repairs even when the car was out of warranty, sadly those goodwill times have changed.

Depending on how bad the shudder is through the transmission and content of glycol in the gearbox depends on the level of repair I carry out.

This particular one is having a Rad and a complete flush of oil. Road test and check, hopefully she will be ok after as it wasnt too bad. It just had an intermitant judder through gearbox under load.

If it does need a TC then there is a very good place in Bristol that I use. They recon the genuine TC and offer a discount for exchanging your old one with them. I have fitted about 5 of their recon units and never had a problem with them. They are less than half price of a new TC from MB.

I have seen gearbox damage due to this fault but the gearbox would need to be stripped to see what is damaged and usually you can repair them. has your dealer done this yet?

 

[television]

Steve the OP here has not mentioned any shuddering,only the locking up in 2nd,,this is the odd bit