E300 Options?

[conway420]

Hey guys, not sure if this section is just an area for questions to GAD or if its a general forum for tuning?

If the latter then I have recently bought a W210 E300 and was wondering whether it is possible to have these vehicles remapped? I previously owned a fraud mondeo and planned on having the common rail lump remapped before the fuel pump went bust, Am i right in thinking remapping an older technology of diesel like mine its not possible?

If so what is open to me? I've heard of some crazy Finnish people upgrading the IP pump, adding holsets/superchargers and methanol injection.
I'm not looking for 400hp, I just want an extra 20 - 30 but with improved torque delivery to bring the car "back to life" a little.. (not that she doesn't still perform well for such a small turbo and being 17 years old! )

I have decat the car completely and have straight through exhaust with resistor and diode mod for EGR to help the engine breath better after i cleaned the inlet manifold and pipes! (yuck..)
I plan on buying some Liqui Moly diesel purge to give the injectors a clean, has anyone used this stuff as its rather pricey at £18 a litre (good reviews on youtube videos but who knows)
I have done many changes recently of filters, belts and oils etc. Just the pressure plate and gearbox oil / filter then i think it would be ready.

This weekend i plan on giving the front arches a good water jet spray clean and weld some tin strips from the spring perches to the arch after reading many horror stories. just preventative maintenance of course!

Anyway to the original point, what would be involved in getting a bit more out? different turbo? what is the maximum~ stock power limit with gearbox etc before i would have to spend $$$ reinforcing? There are millions of these "tuning boxes" and chips etc around FleaBay and all over the net but i just cant trust something like that as the ones i researched for the mondeo just fool the maf and uprated the fuel pressure resulting in destroyed fuel pumps.
Sorry for such a long post! if your still reading... thanks!

 

[Brianooo]

I have the same question as you. I have been running a 210 E300td for about 7 years now. Just recently I have been giving it a bit of a make over. You know sort the rusty wings out, fix the bits that do not work and re-dye the leather to freshen it up. I have also been looking at performance mods. Have you tried the resistor in the MAP sensor wiring to up the boost pressure? I have not tried any mods myself the only thing that I have done that has seemed to make the car more responsive is to remove the air flow sensor and clean it. I could not believe how dirty it was. Do you know what MPG your getting? Cheers Brian

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

Morning guys,

No unfortunately this is something we have no control over! Its old school so the fuelling is not controlled via the ECU so you will need uprated pumps. Yeah if you pop on youtube there are some mad Mercs running over 400bhp and 800nm of torque but smoked a lot!

If you want power without going crazy on the vehicle as far as changing turbos, have a little google of the EVRY mod!!! This was the beginnings of the tuning box (sort of). Have a little read and I might get Gary to pop on later and chat further.

Many thanks

Anthony @ GAD

(WE DONT RECOMMEND THE EVRY MOD!) Should be read into for educational purposes.

 

[conway420]

Thanks Brian, Yeah lots of rust on mine i need to sand, fill and sort out that i keep putting off :roll: I will give the MAF a clean, is it ok to use carburetor cleaner spray or do i need alcohol or something?
MPG isn't great which is why i wanted the E39 in manual, I will top it up in a couple days and get brim to brim reading, but I've only had it a short while and have been having some "fun" I don't think it will be better than 27mpg, On various forums I've read average is around 32/33.

I use a van for work so this rarely see's motorway driving so i think my mpg is going to be a little worse! But I opted for the older technology as after the mondeo fuel pump i'm wary of common rail so fuel use isn't top of my concerns! i'm currently trying to find someone who sells properly converted Veg bio-diesel.

Anthony, Thanks for that i had a feeling about the pump, read loads on people tinkering with screws and adjustments but not sure i want to risk that! I came across the EVRY mod when looking at the 525tds (pre 530d effectively, older technology) seen lots of black smoke but not much poke! lol

It seems a turbo would be the only real option to increase power without putting too much stress on components. Any quick idea on what, if any would need replacing / up-rating to support a bigger turbo? big intercooler? (Is there even an intercooler on my car? I haven't got round to having a proper look but i could not see one!)
would there need to be any adjustments to the fuel pump / injectors?
Thanks!

 

[Triv]

Although this is for a petrol version, there are some similarities;

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/224975-w210-e320-turbo-lots-progress.html

Larger turbo and intercooler.
If nothing else, you can see where the intercooler is situated.

When I first got mine, I thought about more power, bigger wheels etc but as time's gone on I've found that dealing with the rust and trying to keep it looking remotely respectable is a far bigger issue!

 

[Brianooo]

Hi, That's sounds very similar to mine, I get 26mpg. I have not checked this since cleaning the airflow sensor so if it changes I'll let you know. I used brake spray to clean up the airflow sensor.
Cheers Brian

 

[conway420]

Thanks triv, interesting article!
Will definitely try the MAF clean! Just got my first brim to brim reading, wow... 22MPG! This is rather shocking!
I know I've been driving a little harder than i normally would given I've only recently got the car but by no means do i "rag" cars! There was a thermostat included in the rear of car when i bought it, i noticed even after a long drive the needle sticks on 70c~ (half way between 80 and i assume 60), is this normal? i thought it would sit at 80 in the dead middle so hopefully when i change that the car will run more efficiently but i doubt 10c makes "that" much difference! I would be fine with 27/28mpg but 22 I think i'd get better economy off a petrol!

 

[maxypriest]

I've heard of some crazy Finnish people upgrading the IP pump, adding holsets/superchargers and methanol injection.

Not just the Finn's, but some brits too!

 

[maxypriest]

Thanks triv, interesting article!
Will definitely try the MAF clean! Just got my first brim to brim reading, wow... 22MPG! This is rather shocking!
I know I've been driving a little harder than i normally would given I've only recently got the car but by no means do i "rag" cars! There was a thermostat included in the rear of car when i bought it, i noticed even after a long drive the needle sticks on 70c~ (half way between 80 and i assume 60), is this normal? i thought it would sit at 80 in the dead middle so hopefully when i change that the car will run more efficiently but i doubt 10c makes "that" much difference! I would be fine with 27/28mpg but 22 I think i'd get better economy off a petrol!

Something wrong there, i get 30-32 av from my W210. I always let it warm up then i 'press on'. Once had 27 by setting the CC at the ton.

 

[Triv]

This video tells you how many mpg you'll get from it. It's been posted before but no matter what you think of the man, he can review cars.
I've always been dubious of people telling me I can get 34 mpg. They must carry their car on a transporter. The most I've ever got was 32.25 mpg and my god, that was the most boring tank of fuel ever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMuup7QSZI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[conway420]

Thanks Triv i remember seeing that before! his hair!
I did all the oils / filter changes just before filling up to work out that 22mpg so wouldn't have taken the improved efficiency into account with new lovely oil etc. Last Friday i topped up again and set off to London in what was possibly the worst weather I have ever driven in, The car certainly isn't great when aquaplaning! stuck to 40 - 60 slowing down speeding up due to huge puddles and terrible weather, on the motorway cruising no more than 80 (boring yes, but i did want to see what is was capable of if driven sensibly!) and on the way back (thankfully in the day and no rain lol) I topped up again when I returned (only very slightly went over 90 and that was a short period) and had achieved 32.1 MPG!!! such a difference! Still haven't changed the thermostat which i will do tomorrow, im hoping if it runs at 80c rather than 70 i might see 35!

 

[Triv]

im hoping if it runs at 80c rather than 70 i might see 35!

Lol.

 

[conway420]

Lol.

Did my ignorance get the better of me? :Oops: I always assumed optimum operating temps are dead in the middle, which is 80 but the car never hits that! or are you lol'ing at my optimistic figures :lol:

 

[Triv]

You're correct about the temperature. If it runs too cool, economy is hit hard.
I was lolling at your optimism for the mpg you're hoping to get.
I'm interested to see how much you can actually achieve without hypermiling though. Please keep us informed.

 

[Brianooo]

What is the correct running temperature for the w210 300td?

 

[Triv]

There's a number of different posts on the forum suggesting temperatures of anywhere between 80°C and 92.5°C are fine. Those temperatures are determined by the thermostat. I believe the opening temperature of the thermostat is stamped on it somewhere.

Now, from what I've read on this forum, that's all well and good as long as your temperature gauge is accurate.
It must therefore be possible to have an engine operating at the correct temperature for the installed thermostat but the gauge reading low.
Just as it must be possible for an engine to be operating at the wrong temperature, due to a failed thermostat but the gauge saying everything is fine.
I reckon the gauges on these cars are pretty good but there must be variation, a set of parameters that they fit between.

My car runs, according to the gauge, at below the magic 80°C mark. Closer to 75°C. It always has done since I've owned it. Rarely does it go over and then only in stationary traffic after a long motorway run.
The coolant is changed every two years as per schedule and both of the excellent Indies I use say that the temperature is fine, no need to replace the thermostat.

So, that hasnt really answered your question!
Around the 80°C mark is fine.

 

[Brianooo]

Thanks, Triv
Mine runs just under 80'C in the winter and around 80'C in the summer. I am still trying to work out the poor fuel consumption on mine. I have the think its too many short runs.

 

[Triv]

Yes. Short runs hammers economy, particularly in a diesel.

 

[turbopete]

when i had my E300 turbodiesel saloon, i lived in Carlisle and went to the christmas GTG at Gaydon. i set off from home on a brim full tank, and brimmed the tank again before setting off home. i sat using the cruise control set to 70mph all the way down, but DID have a little 'play' on the trip between the museum and the Holiday-inn we used that year, mixing it with the V8 SL's (Malcolm's 230 and IIRC Mic's 129)

when i brimmed the tank prior to setting off home, i was chatting to Malcolm, filling up his SL on the next pump to me. using 4.54 litres = 1 gallon i calculated that the car i had had averaged 39.2MPG for the trip. i never did see 40mpg from it. most of the time i seldom saw 30mpg from it!

 

[Triv]

That's quite an incredible figure Pete. I've never heard of one of these ever even approaching something like that.
Was it downhill all the way, both ways?

Or did Malcolm tow you home? :lol: