Enough to trip the ESP?

[jberks]

Hi all,
Just having a small disagreement with the dealer over my new motor. They just told me that they replaced 2 tyres as part of the PDI as they were below their limit of 3mm. All the mercs I have ever had, have worn the tyres fairly evenly so if the front two are worn out, the back 2 are a hairs bredth behind them. As a result I have always replaced all 4 when one has reached an uncomfortable level.
Ignoring the safety ( I do 500 miles per week at 80+ over the pennines in rain, sleet etc so tyres are important!) and hair splitting issues, I do wonder whether the rotational difference between 2 new and 2 3.1mm tyres will be enough, say at 90mph, to fault the ESP/ABS etc
I'm pushing for all 4 anyway but I think they screwed up and weren't aware that it needed a full B service, plus tyres etc so they are telling me they've spent up - not my problem but any ammo would be useful.
Any ideas?
cheers,
JB

 

[SLinKyjoe]

Hmmm, Derwent group is it?

i think you maybe able to get someone to measure the tyres at 2.9mm instead of 3.1 they must have a cutoff, but it deos say 3mm so techincally speaking they are correct and dont actually need to change them?

I would contact another dealer outside of this group and ask to see whether they would change the tyres or argue the point, then you may have amunition. but tell them the whole story so they have a chance. to my mind, you are looking at customer service here and they really are being bad if 3.1mm is it. 4 mm is fine but come on a tenth of a millimeter. you could take that off on a test drive, round a car park like a few times.

i dont see how the abs./esp would be effected but then it may be.

just as a point, the derwent group did not reply to my phone message, which they said they would ASAP, until nearly 7 hours later despite a futher call to remind them, a call to another dealer for help and also an email direct to mercedes customner care, they also forgot to appologise when they did get back to me.

they need some customer care lessons.

of course i am guessing, you may well have used a different dealer. same still applies tho.

 

[jberks]

Thanks Slinky - yes you guessed correctly.
Unfortunatley I screwed up. I saw the car and drove it as an example of a 270 but wasn't serious about buying it as it was over my budget at the time so I didn't give it my normal thorough going over.
I looked at several other cars from various dealers and when it came down to it, there was only one I really wanted - right spec, colour etc, so I rang them and negotiated over the phone.
Then when I went down to finalise things i went over it properly, but by that time, I'd paid the deposit. They are telling me they've spent over £1k on it already, which at retail prices is certainly true, but then they had the benefit of a PDI before it hit the forecourt so should have expected it.
The wife has already spoken to the salesman and told him I'm livid and threatening to cancel so we'll see what comes of that.....

 

[SLinKyjoe]

.
The wife has already spoken to the salesman and told him I'm livid and threatening to cancel so we'll see what comes of that.....

that may well work over .1mm! but to be honest, any dealer saying they had already spent over £1k isnt really up to much. i am sure they must have bought the car in the first place, which means they may well have spent over £1k just to get it. salesploy to get you to take the car. they should be trying to do anything to please you so you drag the car away from them, not be dragged kicking and screaming out of the place. Makes you wonder if they really want to be in the business of selling cars in the first place. unless they priced it wrong, which is not your fault is it?

Bring back charles sydney, they didnt have this trouble.

let us know what happens.

 

[television]

I am just taking the ABS/ESP/ASR bit of this thread:
The ESP and ASR take their info from the sensors (counters) in the wheels and feed the info to an ECU. This unit has a built in ref clock comparator, if one wheel speed changes a signal is passed to the other wheels and they are adjusted so all the wheels are doing the same RPM. the system is very sensitive and I can trigger mine, going down a small ramp when leaving my garage, more so if I leave at an angle. New tyres come with 8mm, so there can be 5mm difference, could be enough to trigger the system under certain road conditions,if you add it to the difference in wheels speed on a tight bend or corner bearing in mind that the outer wheel is going faster than the inner. Please note that the ASR infor is fed to the engine ECU and under certain conditions can put the car in "limp home mode".ABS will not.
With Volvo, their first genaratiion of AWD 97 to 00, more than 2mm difference on any of the tyres destroyed the gearbox.
All of these things are a pain, but nice to have when they work. Sometimes I wish that I had spent my working life in a sweet shop, but even then I would get someone coming back saying " I bought this toffee 10 years ago and it never tasted right" will I change it under guarantee.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

. Sometimes I wish that I had spent my working life in a sweet shop, .

a quarter of strawberry bonbons please!

so would the collapsable spare wheel activate the ecu. i am sure the rolling radius of this wheel may well be the same as a full size, but only if you have put enough wind in it. if you didnt this could cause issues for changing the wheel! and would the same apply if you were running with low air pressure?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Just over 3mm tread depth! I had the same problem a year ago when I bought my 320CDi. The rear tyres were almost down to the wear indicators and when I pointed this out to the retailer I received the same sob story as yourself (already spent 500+ on prep for sale and wheel refurb) so I backed off. The dealer insisted there was still 3000+ miles left in the tyres, however I didn't feel comfortable with them and changed them within a couple of months. Tell them how many miles you do per week and in what conditions and speed (winter becons).
If pressure on the dealer fails (re renewal of both tyres) try a bit of old fashioned negotiation and offer to purchase 1 of them and the dealer likewise. I'm sure his profit margin will still be very healthy.
Good Luck!

 

[paulcallender]

I think the short answer is:

No

It won't affect the ESP/ABS and it won't affect safety. Sorry if its not the news you wanted to hear.

 

[jberks]

Tell them how many miles you do per week and in what conditions and speed (winter becons).
If pressure on the dealer fails (re renewal of both tyres) try a bit of old fashioned negotiation and offer to purchase 1 of them and the dealer likewise. I'm sure his profit margin will still be very healthy.
Good Luck!

Thanks guys,
thats basically my game plan - re-explain the concerns (got me the first 2 replaced), kick off (done that), if that fails try to negotiate with a target of splitting the bill and if all fails, who's kidding who - I've already paid the deposit, I want the car and I'll have to pay for the other 2 myself. In the great scheme of things its not a fortune and it won't spoil my enjoyment of the car, I had just hoped that after spending that much, I wouldn't have to put my hand in my pocket for at least 6 months or so, but aside from buying a brand new car, you can never entirely rely on that. I guess on the good side, at least they've serviced it, as that would cost a lot more than 2 tyres!
How much are factory spec 245/45/17's anyway?

 

[SLinKyjoe]

try www.mytyres.co.uk

 

[jberks]

Had another chat with the salesman and explained that this small amount of money was the difference between a long term loyal customer (whose mum and dad also drive MB products supplied by them) going away happy or p'd off. He did say that the remaining 2 had 4.5mm on them but he also admitted that they were on the front and were measured at the centre. They are pretty wide and it was in the rain when I was looking at them so I didn't give a really thorough examination, but the edges certainly looked a lot worse than that. Before I learned to adjust pressures to even out the wear, I replaced a few front tyres that were fine in the middle but bald at the edges so I suspect these are similar.
Anyway, he seemed to get the point clearly enough so we'll see what happens ...
In the mean time I'm still waiting for the bleeding dvla to get their finger out. Put the paperwork in a week ago and the salesman recons it will be Wednesday before its through. Not what I call a service that's worth £80. Welcome to the Socialist Republic of England! We'll be queuing for bread soon.
Rant over.