Euro Car Parks

[Dean Fletcher]

So.... Got home last night from work to discover I have been handed a parking fine of £100 or £60 if I pay within 14 days.....
If I truly believed I have committed the offence I would pay without any hesitation. The parking charge is from Salford Quays next to a restaurant called the matchstick man. I took the kids for breakfast there on Tuesday morning as it seemed quiet bearing in mind this is the first time ever being at this place and in fact being in a pub for 18 months. Road works around the area was a complete nightmare and could barely find the entrance to the car park when I did I park up next to a sign that said private car park the matchstick man. (attached is the signs) now I'm lead to believe that I parked one car packing space away from the free parking for the restaurant. There is absolutely to sign which describes when the free parking starts and the euro car park ends?. I'm tempted to ignore the letter but I am going to write a letter of appeal. For the record I parked directly next to the sign in the second photo.
Any advice on tackling the matter is very much appreciated

 

[Blobcat]

Do you have the receipt for the restaurant? If you do I’d write back with a copy of that

 

[Dean Fletcher]

Do you have the receipt for the restaurant? If you do I’d write back with a copy of that

Cheers Rus I'm going to do that today. Cheeky barstewards

 

[Tony Dyson]

I have found myself in this predicament a couple of times and my procedure would be as follows:

1. Do not ignore the letter!​
2. Return to the car park and take pictures of your car in the same space it was parked on the day of the alleged offence and the wider area indicating the signage and road markings.​
3. Respond to the author and request a copy of their proof of the alleged parking infringement indicating clear evidence of the demarcated parking areas.​
4. The next response would be dependent on the evidence provided.​

This is a civil matter between you and another private individual, don’t let them bully you with idle threats of prosecution, the police aren’t interested and any actions against you will have to be brought in the civil courts, be careful with your language, “appealing for their leniency” indicates you’re guilty and the chances are that when they offer you an independent arbitration body, this body will be a subsidiary of ECP and the outcome will already be a foregone conclusion. Identify the weakness in their evidence, provide your proof of innocence and tell them firmly but politely to go take a running jump!

 

[rorywquin]

Looking at the pictures, I’d have assumed that the free parking was on the otherside (rear) of the sign........however, it is not very clear.

The carpark companies are a bunch of thieves. Signage seems to be deliberately obscure.

We have a "free parking for 2 hours" at our local Sainsbury’s (which is handy for going to the restaurants in the area) but after 2 hours you have to pay (24 hours a day). It is noted on their signs but in very small print that you really have to get close to, to read.

 

[jimbg]

Oh dear, Sainsburys provide a car park for the customers to be able to shop and you have problem with them not wishing it to be abused?

 

[Dean Fletcher]

I have found myself in this predicament a couple of times and my procedure would be as follows:

1. Do not ignore the letter!​
2. Return to the car park and take pictures of your car in the same space it was parked on the day of the alleged offence and the wider area indicating the signage and road markings.​
3. Respond to the author and request a copy of their proof of the alleged parking infringement indicating clear evidence of the demarcated parking areas.​
4. The next response would be dependent on the evidence provided.​

This is a civil matter between you and another private individual, don’t let them bully you with idle threats of prosecution, the police aren’t interested and any actions against you will have to be brought in the civil courts, be careful with your language, “appealing for their leniency” indicates you’re guilty and the chances are that when they offer you an independent arbitration body, this body will be a subsidiary of ECP and the outcome will already be a foregone conclusion. Identify the weakness in their evidence, provide your proof of innocence and tell them firmly but politely to go take a running jump!

Thanks Tony much appreciated

 

[rorywquin]

Oh dear, Sainsburys provide a car park for the customers to be able to shop and you have problem with them not wishing it to be abused?

Oh dear, you clearly did not read my post properly.

I have no issues with people not abusing the parking. However after 6pm, when people go to restaurants, the parking areas are empty.

My point was that the signage is not abundant or clear....

 

[jimbg]

I think you are misinterpreting the 2 hour limit, 2 hours is long enough to do your shopping and then leave.

Because something is empty does not mean that you can just use it. There is nothing unusual about a time limit in car parks and as long as the time limit is clear, why do you need small print if you are using it as intended.

I understand where you are coming from, but we should not get upset if they wish to charge for uses other than they intended.

What is wrong is poor sign posting as the OP has highlighted.

 

[rorywquin]

......................

What is wrong is poor sign posting as the OP has highlighted.

We hear so often about people unwittingly parking in spaces (poorly signposted) where there is a charge and they get stung. I never realised that there was a charge after 2 hours until a neighbour warned me. I had to have a walk around to find a sign. They have ANPR and you don’t have the option to pay for more than two hours.

They are crooks.

Do you work for or own a car park company?

 

[jimbg]

No I do not own a car park!

Obviously our thought processes are different, if I see a sign saying 2 hours free then I would then wonder what happens after that period.
If I was planning to stay longer in what is not really a conventional car park I would be worried about the consequences before using it.

How you pay for it I have no idea!

 

[sonic]

I have found myself in this predicament a couple of times and my procedure would be as follows:

1. Do not ignore the letter!​
2. Return to the car park and take pictures of your car in the same space it was parked on the day of the alleged offence and the wider area indicating the signage and road markings.​
3. Respond to the author and request a copy of their proof of the alleged parking infringement indicating clear evidence of the demarcated parking areas.​
4. The next response would be dependent on the evidence provided.​

This is a civil matter between you and another private individual, don’t let them bully you with idle threats of prosecution, the police aren’t interested and any actions against you will have to be brought in the civil courts, be careful with your language, “appealing for their leniency” indicates you’re guilty and the chances are that when they offer you an independent arbitration body, this body will be a subsidiary of ECP and the outcome will already be a foregone conclusion. Identify the weakness in their evidence, provide your proof of innocence and tell them firmly but politely to go take a running jump!

As Tony has said push the poor signage angle. They will be very reluctant to go to court & then try to justify the quality of their signage.
I suspect they will try half a dozen threatening letters then give up.

 

[Dean Fletcher]

I have since appealed and heard nothing as yet. Apparently it can take up to 35 days. I sent photos of the signs and the fact that I was 1 car packing space out from the supposedly free parking. Also sent proof that we dined at the restaurant at the time. We were only there 63 minutes

 

[rf065]

I have since appealed and heard nothing as yet. Apparently it can take up to 35 days. I sent photos of the signs and the fact that I was 1 car packing space out from the supposedly free parking. Also sent proof that we dined at the restaurant at the time. We were only there 63 minutes

Wrong move, as they now presumably have your contact details, your appeal will fail, your details will be sold on to a debt collection agency and they will now hound you to death, or until you pay regardless of any guilt. You're dealing with absolute scum and should have thought at their level. I do hope I'm wrong, but I've been there before!

 

[Dean Fletcher]

Wrong move, as they now presumably have your contact details, your appeal will fail, your details will be sold on to a debt collection agency and they will now hound you to death, or until you pay regardless of any guilt. You're dealing with absolute scum and should have thought at their level. I do hope I'm wrong, but I've been there before!

They have nothing more than what they had before apart from an email address. When the phone number section came up I couldn't quite remember the correct number

 

[Tony Dyson]

I have since appealed and heard nothing as yet. Apparently it can take up to 35 days. I sent photos of the signs and the fact that I was 1 car packing space out from the supposedly free parking. Also sent proof that we dined at the restaurant at the time. We were only there 63 minutes

I don't think what you've done is a wrong move as you can now provide evidence, if needed that you've attempted to address the mistaken allegation through their published internal policies, but be prepared for their unsupportive response! The debt collection agency will also proceed with the assumption that you are the guilty party and have accepted culpability, my next move would be to "Identify the weakness in their evidence, provide your proof of innocence and tell them firmly but politely to go take a running jump! " The debt collection agency will not invest funds and time resources attempting to collect a debt that is under dispute and is nothing more than a simple and mistaken allegation!

 

[A.J.]

I have since appealed and heard nothing as yet. Apparently it can take up to 35 days. I sent photos of the signs and the fact that I was 1 car packing space out from the supposedly free parking. Also sent proof that we dined at the restaurant at the time. We were only there 63 minutes

I don't think what you've done is a wrong move as you can now provide evidence, if needed that you've attempted to address the mistaken allegation through their published internal policies, but be prepared for their unsupportive response! The debt collection agency will also proceed with the assumption that you are the guilty party and have accepted culpability, my next move would be to "Identify the weakness in their evidence, provide your proof of innocence and tell them firmly but politely to go take a running jump! " The debt collection agency will not invest funds and time resources attempting to collect a debt that is under dispute and is nothing more than a simple and mistaken allegation!

I too think it is unlikely that they will pursue the debt. The collections are bought as a batch from the likes of Euro Car Parks and if they take your collection to task and lose, that has cost them the profit margin on many of their other debt collections. We had a similar issue at McDonalds car park at Heathrow. We didn't go to McDonalds but did use their car park a few years back, we stood firm and they went away to harass somebody else

 

[rorywquin]

No I do not own a car park!

Obviously our thought processes are different, if I see a sign saying 2 hours free then I would then wonder what happens after that period.
If I was planning to stay longer in what is not really a conventional car park I would be worried about the consequences before using it.

How you pay for it I have no idea!

Nope the 2 hour signs are also few and far between - they should be large and placed in prominent locations. Admittedly, I rarely go there and never even noticed that there was a 2 hour restriction. If I do go to a new parking I always look for the pay and display points (which are always clearly signposted).

The car park is not a conventional supermarket carpark and one massive place like we normally have at supermarkets but is made up of several different sized areas and areas that could easily be mistaken for street parking. I checked on Google maps and can see a light pole mounted sign just after the roundabout / entrance to the shopping area. Quite small and cannot be read if you are driving and paying attention to traffic.

Apparently (just asked my wife) you cannot pay, you have to leave and not return within 15 minutes.

You should not automatically assume that people who have been caught out by this underhand system have been trying to get away with free parking.

 

[jimbg]

Ha! ha! Perhaps next time you go out you need to check Google maps first as your screenshot shows "2 hours max"!

 

[MBDevotee]

For future reference - there is one guaranteed way to beat this...... Very Questionable on many many levels......

But if you want to beat these car park companies it does work.....

Alter the date and time on your dashcam (won't work if it's locked in by GPS) - then submit to them showing that you were in a completely different place at that time and stating their evidence is either fake or your car number plate was cloned.

The onus will then fall to them to PROVE it WAS you, rather than you prove it wasn't. In reality all they have is a picture of A car with A plate that matches yours......

Alternatively just claim you weren't there and have 2 sets of plates made up - one different to the other - perhaps one with a GB stripe down the side and one not.... When they send the photo of the "offence" simply send back a photo of your car with the "other" set of plates on - and say "look - that car has a GB stripe on it's plate - mine doesn't, it can't be the same car, perhaps my plate was cloned".... The onus will then be on THEM to prove it WAS your car rather than for you to prove it was not - and there is no way in hell they could.

Plenty of places make up plates easily - www.myshowplates.com is one of many.

Just make them different enough there can be no question whatsoever.

Do not try this with Police! They will have access to far more info (ANPR, roadside cameras etc etc) but a private parking firm will not have access to any of that.....

I had this once with a van I got a ticket for parking in a bay in London - my van at the time of the "offence" was at the repairers with no fuel pump fitted as it had failed...... and had been for nearly 4 weeks - Result, case closed.